Interview: Betsy Brandt on her new Hulu series SAINT X, that startling BETTER CALL SAUL appearance, her desire to revive LIFE IN PIECES, and more
I first met Betsy Brandt in March 2011 when I was fortunate enough to take my second and final visit to the set of Breaking Bad. It was a relatively quick trip, but my fellow TV critics and I were treated to dinner with the cast on the evening we arrived, and the next day we did a tour of the set which concluded with one-on-one interviews with Bryan Cranston, Aaron Paul, Anna Gunn, and Betsy.
Naturally, it was nice to meet her in person, but it wasn’t until we did a phoner in August of the following year for the A.V. Club that we actually bonded in a big way.
Yeah, it’s weird that the bond was solidified over the phone rather than in person, but you can blame that on the incident that occurred mid-conversation, something that was omitted from the resulting piece but which I transcribed and added to my now-defunct website News, Reviews & Interviews. Fortunately for you, I saved the transcription, so you can now read it below…
Betsy Brandt: Is that…a wasp in my house? [Leans away from the phone.] Get the fuck outta here! I have children! I don’t need you! Where did that come from? Oh, it is an ugly thing. Get out! [Several seconds of silence.] Now I don’t know where it is. All right, we’re just going to live dangerously. We’re just going to live dangerously. Wasp, where are you? He is ugly! Not that I’d be okay if a good-looking one stung me… Oh, no, he’s still there! I really don’t know what this is. All right, you keep talking, and I’m just gonna… [Pauses.] I really…if I have a spider or something, I try and, y’know, like, move them out of my house. But then I feel like there’s a line. And when you cross it, that’s it for me. I’m sorry, if it’s between me and you, you go down. [Another pause.] I’m scared. If this attacks me, afterwards call 911 and tell them I need help.
I certainly will.
Oh, God, no, he took off! Shit! Now he’s flying around! [Starts laughing.] This is not what you signed on for, I know…
No, but this is some awesome color commentary. Just let me know if he comes back.
He’s on the window. I’m gonna go for it.
Do it.
It’s just… Fuck! He knows I’m after him. We’ve got this cat-and-mouse thing… [Several seconds of silence, followed by a “thunk” and, immediately thereafter, a very loud victory yell.] I won! He’s totally not dead, but he’s on the floor and… [To the wasp.] Oh, God, now I have to kill you just because it’s just…oh, my God. My heart rate is so fast!
You are the one who knocks!
[Bursts out laughing.] I am the danger, wasp! You put that stinger away! I am the danger! Oh, my God. Here I am, going, “Oh, yes, please, write me an action scene!” And I just killed this wasp, and, oh, God, my heart is racing… But, okay, I think we can carry on now. [To the wasp.] I’m sorry. It had to be you or me, okay? I’m sorry!
Since that conversation and subsequent tweet, Betsy and I have followed each other on Twitter, and we’ve traded messages here and there. We also had a few chances to see each other in person again at the Television Critics Association press tour, first when she spotted me at the CBS party in 2015, which resulted in another interview for the A.V. Club, one which kicked off with this eventually-notable remark:
During the following summer’s TCA tour, we visited the set of her series Life in Pieces, which gave me another chance to see her in person, but after that our contact would remain solely through the Twitterverse and email until this January, when we both found ourselves at the Langham in Pasadena for the winter TCA tour. She was there to promote her new Hulu series, Saint X, and she actually spotted me when she was first walking in and blew out of line to run and give me a hug. She said she’d see me later for our interview, which I’d known was happening, but what I didn’t realize until the end of the interview in question is that I was the only one-on-one she was doing that day.
Every once in awhile, it pays off to be a nice guy. Guess I’ll stick with it.
So I've been binging Saint X since they sent me the screeners a few days ago, and even with all of the other screeners on my plate, I'm four episodes into the show already.
Betsy Brandt: Oh!
Needless to say, I'm really enjoying it.
I haven't seen the last three.
Well, neither have I, obviously, so at least we're even on that front.
Okay, tell me what you think.
I think that it's very adept at bouncing between timelines.
Right?
I was not expecting it to be as many timelines as it was. I was only expecting it to be focused on the time spent at the resort and the present day. That requires some major precision in terms of its construction. But so far it's working extremely well. So let's get to the questions: how did you find your way into this thing? Did they come looking for you?
Oh, you know, I have a really great agent and manager that I've worked with for years, and they knew that this was the kind of thing we were looking for next. I'm always drawn to those dark dramas. So when they brought this to me and we started talking about this, I read the book, and I was, like, "Yeah, I'm in." I just really... It just really resonated with me. I have a daughter who's a few years younger than Alison, and it's every parent's worst nightmare. I mean, I think any parent has played this role already in their mind. [Laughs.]
I mean, I've got a 17-year-old,. so...
Right? Me, too! And I think there was a part of me when my kids were younger where I was more in the mindset of "I want to stay away from that." But now it was, like, "Let's just fucking dive in!" [Laughs.] "Let's face that dragon! Let's go and imagine what that worst nightmare is like to live!"
How did you enjoy the old-age makeup that you had to wear in the present-day scenes?
I loved the opportunity. The makeup is a bitch to get off. [Laughs.]
[At his point, one of the women who was with Betsy—I'll be honest, I'm not sure it was her personal publicist or the show's publicist—said something that I didn't catch on my recorder, but it made Betsy laugh, at which point she explained why.]
I was telling her about the wasp. [Laughs even harder.] When I killed the wasp! When I saw you earlier, I said, 'Oh, my God, it's Will! I killed a wasp before our interview!"
During the interview!
During! I took a magazine and beat the wasp, and I said, "I am the danger!" [Laughs.] I was very offended that this wasp came to my house, because I have children, and I was, like, "The wasp should know this."
I still have the whole transcription.
You were right there with me for the whole thing! Was there a part of you that was, like, "She is way too comfortable with me"? [Laughs.] I'm going, "Oh, my God, I'm scared, my heart is racing..."
It was literally a play-by-play. And it was fantastic. Now, about this old-age makeup...
It was a bitch to get off. [Laughs.] Our hair and makeup team was amazing, and Stacey [Herbert], who was in charge of all the old-age makeup and was head of makeup, was phenomenal. That was really intriguing to do, and also one of the reasons I wanted to take the job. Not to put the makeup on and then learn how to take it off without ripping my skin off. But that was a great opportunity, because I was so proud of these characters. They have to pick up the pieces and pull themselves up...and you have to decide to do that after a loss like this. Not everybody does.
With the structure, you really get an opportunity to see the various emotional states of the characters.
And I think Mia... [Hesitates.] Like, I looked at her as... We see her in the beginning, and I think it's, like, you can write her off as a stay-at-home mom. But I think the strength she finds in the show, it surprises her, too.
How did you enjoy working with West [Duchovny]?
[Sighs.] She's magical.
I didn't really know anything about her, but I saw the last name, and I was, like, "Oh, is she...?" And she is indeed David's daughter. But I wasn't familiar with her as an actress. She's fantastic.
Isn't she? Yeah, on and off screen. I love her. And I'm so excited to have people see her in this. I think she's a phenomenal person and a stunning actress.
And I'm blanking on your other daughter's name, but she's great, too.
Yeah, Kenlee [Townshend]. I knew she was going to be good in this. Because there's some things I do when we're doing something this heavy, and she was right along with me. We were just focused. One of the best and toughest scenes for us to shoot was when they leave the hotel, but to do that... That was a tough night. A good night. Like, it's great work. But we were just really focused. And we have a lot of fun, too! We had a lot of fun on this show. We had fun with this crew. But when we worked, we worked, and it was, like, "Let's get in there and do what we need to do, and then we'll go to the disco after." [Laughs.]
Okay, obligatory questions about other stuff. First of all, how far in advance did you know you were going to be in the Better Call Saul finale?
Ooh! You know, we'd been working on it for a minute, but there was some scheduling stuff. But they had decided that they were going to be flexible, and I had decided that whatever I had to do, I was gonna do it! [Laughs.] And then it turned out that we were prepared for whatever, but it just kind of worked out that I was shooting Love, Victor at the time, and I could go back and forth and do whatever I needed to do, and everything panned out. And I did that before I left to do Saint X.
When you showed up, I was, like, "I guess I'm kind of surprised that they wouldn't have Anna Gunn in there," but then the more I thought about it, Marie's connection to Hank made more sense in the context of the series.
Yeah, it was... [Long pause.] That was such a gift, to go back and be with my TV family again. You know, to say Peter Gould's words and have him direct me was... I'm lucky I wasn't crying all the time. And then to get to play Marie again in any way, I was happy to take that. But also, to get to have her grow up in the way that she did when you see her... We see some of that in the last episode of Breaking Bad, but then to have her get it together...
You got a proper epilogue.
Yeah. I was so proud of her. What a great day - or days - shooting that. And to get to have a scene with Bob [Odenkirk]? Yeah, it was great. I mean, Breaking Bad is just the show that keeps on giving, in every way.
Me being me, I have to ask you about an eccentric project, so what can you tell me about the experience of doing the pilot for Members Only?
Oh! Wow, we're going back!
I do a feature called Pilot Error on my Substack newsletter, so I had to ask.
Oh, yeah. God, I remember a lot of it. Man, I was disappointed that that show didn't go.
I didn't even really know about it until I started looking over your filmography today, and I was, like, "How did this not go?"
[Described by ABC as "an upstairs/downstairs soap set at a private country club," the pilot - which was originally executive-produced by David O. Russell and Susannah Grant - was ordered straight to series by ABC in 2013 and given a 13-episode pickup. The show would’ve revolved around Natalie Zea’s character, and it was set to star Brandt, John Stamos, Callie Hernandez, Luke Mitchell, Samantha Logan, Boris Kodjoe, and many others, including a recurring role for John Cullum as the father of Zea’s character. A month after the show was ordered, however, Russell dropped out of the project, and while some might theorize that his departure explains the network’s decision to bail on the series, it really doesn’t, because it had plenty going for it without Russell’s presence, including the fact that its pilot was directed by the same individual who’d helmed the pilot for one of the network’s biggest hits at the time, Nashville.]
I thought that was a sure thing. And I was like [Stretches out.] "Let's get comfortable...for seven, eight seasons!" So it's probably my fault, because I said that! But that was great. A great cast. And Susanna Grant, phenomenal.
Plus, it was directed by R.J. Cutler.
And R.J. directed it! God, he's good. Isn't he just...? And he's a great guy. I loved working with him and that whole crew. Yeah, I really thought... [Pauses.] That surprised me. In a way, not a lot surprises me anymore in this business. [Laughs.] And I was, like, "Really?!" Maybe I should've seen it coming, but I totally didn't.
Do you think there'll ever be a revisiting of the family from Life in Pieces?
You know, it crossed my mind because so many people discovered it over the pandemic and were, like, "How good is this? Where was this?" And I'm, like, "Well, it was on CBS for four seasons." [Laughs.] But, you know, when it was canceled, it wasn't doing poorly. It just wasn't getting numbers like The Big Bang Theory. But nothing is anymore. So I think if that was the situation now, we'd keep going. For years. But I'm saying that now, in hindsight. But I thought... [Hesitates.] You know, everybody does what they have to do, executives and studios, but I really thought that CBS knew what they had and that we'd keep going. But...I don't know, is there a world where that happens? I feel like you might be able to better answer that than me!
I mean, theoretically? It's all down the replay numbers and if the original series streams enough. I think it's on Amazon Prime now, and as you said, a lot of people discovered it during the pandemic, so...you never know.
I'd love it if, like, Amazon would do it as a streaming show, and we could do... [Pauses.] I'm not complaining about 22 episodes, but the show's just better when you don't do as many.
I think the streaming model tends to be 10 episodes nowadays.
Yeah, I think 10 would be perfect. I know with networks, they'll sometimes do 17. I pitched that maybe we do 17 but CBS pays us for 22, and they were, like, "That doesn't work for us." [Laughs.] I was, like, "You guys are looking at it wrong!"
"Run the numbers again!"
"I'm not in accounting, guys. That's not what you hire me to do. I'm just saying that I think it does work." [Laughs.] So what I'm saying is, I would love to do more. I think Justin Adler is amazing. I love him to pieces...for Life in Pieces! Yeah, I would love it if that was to happen. But I'd do anything Dianne Wiest is doing. Still, to this day. I was thinking about doing the TCAs with her before we went up for our panel and she was like [Whispering.] "Ugh, I don't want to do this." And I said, "Dianne, it's just 20 minutes. You know what? That's just 5 minutes more than 15 minutes. You can do anything for 15 minutes! 15 minutes is nothing! This is just 5 minutes more than that!" When, really, it's more like 25. But you get it.
I absolutely get it. Dianne Wiest is someone I've always wanted to interview, but it's just never happened.
Do you want me to do it right now? Ask me a question, and I'll answer as Dianne.
How did you enjoy working with Steve Martin?
[Delivers a pitch-perfect Dianne Wiest impression.] "Ohhhhhhh... He's wonderful."
Beautiful.
That's how it would be!
How do you look back on The Michael J. Fox Show?
It's funny, I've been thinking about that show the last couple of days.
It popped up somewhere streaming not too long ago.
Is that why? I'm not sure why. But I would do that show again in a heartbeat. Like, I wouldn't think twice about it. He's amazing. I'd do anything for him or with him. He spoiled me, for sure. Because, like, a lot of people who are funny are really dark. And Michael made dark jokes, but he's insanely smart and ridiculously kind. So we had a great time on set. He's so generous, he'll never fight you for a laugh, so I was, like, "Great! This comedy thing is fun!" And it's not always like that. It doesn't always go that way. So he really spoiled me. He totally spoiled me, he's so great. And I loved that cast, too! I just saw Juliette [Goglia] at a party the other night. Oh, my God, she's so funny...
When it popped up streaming, I watched it, and somehow I'd never seen the episode with Richard Kind guest-starring.
He was on Life in Pieces, too! Richard is great, isn't he? Did you watch Red Oaks? I think it was one of the best things he's ever done...and he's always good. He's always great! But I loved him in that. And Jennifer Grey, too!
Oh, yeah. The debut of that show is why I did a Random Roles with him for the A.V. Club - we did it on the phone - and it went so well that when I subsequently interviewed him in person for season two, he said, "It's nice to meet you," and I said, "Well, we've talked before. I'm the one who did that Random Roles roles." He said, "That was you? C'mere. C'mere!" And he gave me this big hug.
Oh, my God, that's so what he would do.
Yeah, he literally sat there and praised me for five minutes. It was insane. I'm still not quite over it.
I love Richard so much. I mean, I know him. He's so intense, but he's so funny. He loves to work. And I just think he's...he's... I don't even know what to say! He's immeasurable. My sister was visiting me when we were in New York, and we ran into Richard. So she got to experience Richard just being Richard. [Laughs.] And I swear to God, she's never laughed so hard. And he wasn't even trying to be funny. He's just being Richard! Oh, my God, it was so great...
God, I miss The Michael J. Fox Show! I was really cocky going into that show. I was, like, "Who's gonna cancel Michael J. Fox?" NBC, that's who. [Laughs.] But they picked us up straight to series, 22 episodes, we didn't have to do a pilot, they didn't mess with it. But I would've liked a couple more seasons of that.
I felt like it was really finding its legs.
I think so, too!
Which is what ensemble comedies need.
And I do find that frustrating in the business. I'm, like, "You've gotta give it a chance!" After that pilot, you can't just give up on it. All these shows that we love, they don't come out of the gate like that.
I just read James Burrows' memoir, and he tells the oft-told story about how Cheers never would've made it to a second season if it hadn't had Brandon Tartikoff in its corner.
Right? You've got to believe in it a little. It's not PBS, I get it. You've got to make money. But you've also got to have some faith!