Interview: Director Lee Shallat Chemel (Pt. 2)

It’s been a few months since I published the first part of my interview with director Lee Shallat Chemel, so it’s quite possible that you’ve forgotten what you read in Pt. 1. As such, I feel that it behooves me to remind you of its contents by re-offering the link to that conversation, so…here it is!

Having offered that up, here’s Pt. 2, and don’t be surprised if you find yourself longing for a sequel, because I do, too. Fortunately, Lee said she’s up for doing one, so I’ll try not to wait another few months before getting that scheduled.

You first worked with DeAnn [Heline] and Eileen [Heisler, creators of The Middle] on Murphy Brown, right?

Murphy Brown, yes. In fact, I think I directed their first script there...? Maybe not. I think it was the one about Lillehammer. Maybe. If it wasn't their first, then it was definitely early on there.

[For the record, the episode Lee references - the brilliantly-titled "Fjord Eyes Only" - was indeed the first time she directed one of DeAnn and Eileen's scripts on Murphy Brown, but it wasn't their first episode. They'd written two others before that: "Black and White and Read All Over" and "It's Not Easy Being Brown," both of which were directed by Peter Bonerz.] 

But unlike The Middle, they weren't showrunners there. They were writers on Murphy Brown, which was great, but I didn't have the same kind of relationship I then had when I did Three Sisters or, more importantly, The Middle, which... I mean, certainly that and The Bernie Mac Show are my two most positive TV experiences ever, in the whole world. Yeah, I love them. And they're just such disciplined writers, and so funny at the same time. And that's rare. Their room wasn't crazy. Like, for example, Danny Jacobson's. When you'd go to the bungalow and he was writing Mad About You, you couldn't get through the smoke from the weed. [Laughs.] They were all high all the time. Not that that was bad! They wrote a great show! But everybody's different.

But, yeah, The Middle was a fantastic experience. To be able to be on a show for that long, so that you become part of the family and that you know second-hand the whole thing and how people work... What a gift that is for a director. It's a real gift.

I'm sure you've heard the story about how our family inspired a storyline on the show. 

[Excitedly.] Which one? Which one?

The one where Frankie got arrested over a library book. 

Yes!

Yep, I'm the one who had the sheriff come to my front door with a summons over a library book. 

Oh, my God, I didn't know that was you! I know people were saying, "Yeah, this comes from real life," and they must've mentioned your name or something, but... Oh, my God, that is so great!

Yeah, my wife and I came to the set several years ago, and it was before they'd started filming, but the writers were all there, so we met them, and then somehow or other my wife ended up telling that story, and when she finished, you could've heard a pin drop, and then I think it was Robin [Schorr] who said, "You, uh, do know that anything that's said in the writer's room is fair game, right?" And no more was said about it until I read the tagline for the episode the day it was supposed to air, and I posted on Facebook…

Oh, that's so typical of DeAnn. [Laughs.] Oh, my God, Will, I had no idea. That is so cool! I remember somebody had the story where Frankie's eating the end of a chips bag that she found on the couch while watching TV, and she finds out that she was eating Axl's toenail clippings. That really happened! Real life is much better than anything we can imagine!

[Per DeAnn and Eileen, the story came courtesy of "our beloved makeup artist Tyson Fountaine."]

I know you worked on a couple of episodes of NewsRadio. You said that Phil Hartman was great.

Oh, yeah. Phil, Stephen Root, Dave Foley... It was such a good cast. But one of the producing entities there said, "Paul [Simms] is writing too long, we've got to get him to edit the scripts down, because they're having to take too much out." So I went, "Okay, that's my job!" Because I wanted to please them, I set it as my goal: to get Paul to do that. I'm...not a fan of Paul. But we don't have to dwell on that. So the first script came in, and it was long, and I said, "Hey, Paul!" "Yeah?" "I think you've got to do some editing here before we shoot." "Yeah, well, maybe I will...or I won't. I don't know." And sometimes I'm just such a cheerleader type of person...and that was a bad match for Paul Simms. 

Anyway, so we're doing some pre-shooting, and he's sitting in front of me, and he's smoking, by the way. That bothered me, too, but no judgement or anything. [Laughs.] So he said, "Okay, gimme the script, somebody!" He was pretty arrogant, to tell you the truth. And he said, "Okay, okay, we'll cut this one out, and we'll cut this one." I said, "That's great!" And I oversold my "that's great." You know, I 'm going, "Yes! Yes!" And I hear myself saying it, and I'm, like, "Why did you do that?" But he turned, and he looked at me, and he said, "Get the fuck out of here."

Yikes.

Yeah, it wasn't a good match. [Laughs.] And I said, "You mean you want me to actually walk out the door?" "No, just...walk away from me." So that was my relationship with Paul Simms! And then I wasn't asked back after that, so I think I directed two, maybe?

It was indeed two.

[And if you’re curious, they were “Presence” and “Coda.”]

Yeah, the imprimatur from the people came on the second show, and that's when I did that, and...it didn't work out. And, of course, I was the expendable one, because Paul Simms was the creator. So that was unfortunate. But I did have a chance to at least experience those guys in the cast, and they were really good. I don't remember Joe Rogan, though. I remember everybody else but him, interestingly.

Well, in the end, that's probably for the best. 

Yeah! But it was sad about Phil. What a shock!

I am literally still not over it. 

I mean, if you'd written that, it would've been too much. With their children in the house! Holy crap...

It's always my immediate answer when people ask, "What celebrity death hit you the hardest?" Phil Hartman. Done. Full stop. 

Oh, yeah. Oh, my goodness, yeah. Horrific. A  horrific end, and an unexplainable one. The trauma with those children... I can't help but think of the children, who were in the next room. It's just... [Shakes her head.] Awful. Just awful. 

I wanted to...

[At the same time.] I want to tell you a story... Oh, no, go ahead!

No, no, please. Any story you have...

[Singing.] I want to do what you want to do... I want to do what you want to do... [Laughs.] I just want to make sure we ultimately get to Larsen's of Las Vegas at some point. So don't forget that!

For all of your TV work, you've also directed at least one film: Greener Mountains. As it happens, I'm either Facebook or Twitter acquaintances with several of them, so Brad Raider says "hi," as do Curtis Armstrong, Michael Hitchcock, and Chris Heuisler.

Oh, and they were all so lovely. Yes, every one of them. I'd worked with Brad before on The Trouble with Normal, which was also Victor Fresco, and Curtis I'd worked with on a pilot called Titletown, which was about Packers fans...and I was a huge Packers fan until just very recently. [Laughs.] I'm still a Packers fan, but...trouble with the quarterback.

I understand.

Anyway, here's a story about that one. This was really my first of anything longform that I'd ever done, so the guy who wrote the screenplay, Hector Hill... They asked me a long time before this to do that movie, and I said, "This just isn't my kind of movie." But they said, "Well, help us with the script!" And so a year later I finally said, "I'm going to direct it!" But because I was so involved with the script, I think what I did is, I forgot to be a director. This is my evaluation of my work on that movie: I was just doing kind of straightforward shooting. And about three-quarters of the way through doing it, my kids and my husband came up, and it was our anniversary, so it was late May, and on the weekend we went to see one of the Harry Potter movies. It was the Alfonso Cuarón one, so that was the third one? And I remember we were sitting in the movie theater, and I just went [Horrified.] "Oh, fuck. I haven't been directing a movie. I've just been shooting a movie. Oh, my God!"

It was this one shot that was so perfect... It was a long scene where Dumbledore and Snape are walking through the big hall, and all the kids are hiding because Sirius Black is loose, and they're all in sleeping bags on the floor, and it's a high, high shot, and you hear the dialogue, you see Snape and Dumbledore walking down, and they're talking about this situation...and in the book, of course, you're learning that Harry is listening to this and freaking out. So the shot is just this dialogue, the huge shot of the whole hall, and it drops down and down and down and down...and the very last moment is Harry's face filling the bottom of the frame. In other words, you just reveal him at the end and his reaction. It's a brilliant way of doing a whole lot of exposition, and then just his face of terror in a closeup. And that's when I just went, "Oh, my God..." 

So there's a scene when all the adults are playing poker, and the boy is trying to find the girl, and he's watching a monitor...and so I stole that idea, if only a 25-cent version of it. [Laughs.] Where instead of doing it like I'd planned, which was coverage of them playing and talking, no, anything they had to do is in the background, and it's all about him looking for the girl. So we did this long dolly move, and I was, like, "Okay, at least I've shot one scene that is worthy!" 

Well, having watched it, I can confirm that it's an enjoyable little family film. Family-ish? 

Yeah, it's a family film. And that was the intent, for sure. 

Okay, I know we're going to have to do a sequel to this at some point, but before we close up, I wanted to be sure we talked about The Larsens of Las Vegas, because you specifically mentioned it, but also because I love a good pilot story.

Well, that's a serious story, in a way. But there are two fun things in it. So it was a pilot that Danny Jacobsen produced, and it was using a couple of his younger writers who did the script. He was giving them an opportunity to write a pilot script and all that sort of stuff. And, of course, it's about gambling, which is a big deal to Danny. He did a lot of serious gambling and stuff like that. And Peter Boyle was in it. 

Before we get there, though, I'll just tell you one funny thing. So we're still working on the script, and the two guys - I'm sorry, I can't remember their names - and I, we meet at Danny's house. And Danny's at a desk, he's got a big monitor in front of him, and we're sitting on the couch in front of the fireplace. And we're talking and looking at the script and stuff. And after about 20 minutes, Danny goes, "Wait a minute, wait a minute... Okay!" And he comes around, and he hands each of us a one-hundred dollar bill. And he says, "I just made $10,000 on a horse race." [Laughs.] So you see where the gambling comes from!

So The Larsens of Las Vegas... It was a tough pilot. It wasn't working very well. And we had good people, too! But one of the things was that I was finding that I wasn't connecting with Peter, and I was frustrated by that and...probably not confident enough to not let it get to me, so maybe I get worse when I'm not confident. But finally I said at the end of the rehearsal, "Peter, is there something I am doing?" And he said, "Lee, the truth is, I just can't be directed by a woman. I can't take direction from a woman." Said it right out.

Wow.

Yeah. Now, in a way, it was useful. Because I understood that that was his issue. I think he had more problems with me than that, but he kindly said, "I just have trouble with women." He was probably having trouble specifically with this woman. [Laughs.] But anyway, at least it gave us a chance to have a dialogue. So Danny took us to breakfast the next morning, and we somehow figured some stuff out. At least it was out in the open, you know? And there was no solution, really, but that was the way it went.

We did it twice in front of an audience. The first time, it bombed completely, and I had to give a big speech to the cast. The second time, they did a good job, but it still didn't get picked up. And that's okay! [Laughs.] But that was a very interesting experience! 

Well, next time we talk, we'll have to talk about Stacked, because I loved that show. And, of course, we'll also have to go into more detail about The Middle.

Oh, yeah, for sure! Yeah, I sort of gave it slim response, but...

No, no, I'm the one who gave it short shrift because you had so much else on your filmography. But at least it provides us with a good excuse for a sequel.

All right. This has been great. And it was okay for you? 

Oh, 100%. I always say, I don't need dirt, I just need anecdotes.

Oh, well, I'm loaded with those. [Laughs.]