Interview: George Wyner (Part 1)

In which he discusses "Days of Our Lives," "The Larry Sanders Show," "The Devil's Advocate," "A Serious Man," "Kaz," and the not-entirely-classic horror film "Dogs"

We’re coming up on the 10th anniversary of my first Random Roles interview, but the truth of the matter is that I’ve been fascinated by the back catalogs of actors for virtually as long as I’ve been interested in pop culture. As such, I decided that if I was going to be getting this newsletter going in a significant way, I was going to start reaching out to actors who I’d always wanted to interview but didn’t necessarily have an outlet that would be as enamored with the idea.

One of the first names on my list: George Wyner.

Yes, he’s a true “that guy,” an actor who - despite the fact that you might not know his name - you can identify as being in two or three films right off the top of your head. Personally, when I see him, I think “Fletch,” then I think “Spaceballs,” then I can’t even concentrate on naming a third thing because oh my God he’s been in everything!

As soon as George agreed to hop on the phone, I immediately reached out on social media, looking for suggestions in regards to what I should ask him about…and I got a ton of ‘em. In fact, I got so many that not only do I have to split this interview into two parts, but I didn’t even come close to tackling all of the topics that were suggested. Fortunately, when I told him we might need to do a sequel, he immediately replied - and with perfect coming timing - “I’m available!”

For now, though, here’s Part One of my interview with George Wyner, and as an Episcopalian, I don’t risk using this word very often, but…after you read this, I think we can all join together and agree that this man is a mensch.

First of all, it's a pleasure to talk to you, and I appreciate you being willing to do this.

George Wyner: Oh, no, it's my pleasure, and I'm looking forward to it!

As am I. I enjoy just kind of trolling through actors' back catalogues with them, and before I do so, I hit up the folks who follow me on social media and ask them what they want me to ask about...and believe me, I got a flurry of suggestions!

[Laughs.] Probably half of them came from my family!

You never know, but...I think you might be surprised at how many fans you've got out there!

That's true: you never know!

Well, before I ask about any specific project, I'll just start by asking for the inevitable origin story: how did you find your way into acting in the first place? Was it something you stumbled into, or was it something you'd wanted to do all your life?

You know, I always had an interest in doing it, and it was actually the only thing I was ever going to do. I was very young. I used to go to theater a lot with my parents, and I'm from Boston, which was an out-of-town theater site for pre-Broadway for many, many years. One of several cities like that, where they played musicals that were going to go on to Broadway and needed to get freshened up or whatever. And I just fell in love with it. I remember sitting there many times being mesmerized by the... [Hesitates.] I didn't even know what it was that mesmerized me, I just knew that I wanted to be in that world. So I kept watching. And it never went away. It just grew. And excuse me, I just dropped my earpiece. 

No problem.

I'm going to get another earpiece, but my family wants me to get another phone. I said, "There's nothing wrong with my phone. It's been wonderful for 20 years!" [Laughs.] I think they're just embarrassed to be seen in public with me!

Anyway, so that was it, really. I did plays wherever I was in school, and then I went to Syracuse as a drama major. But that was the only thing I ever thought about doing from a young age. Now, I must say, there were times when I was out here - and I've been out in Los Angeles for 50 years now - when I thought, "What's wrong with me? I didn't have a Plan B!" [Laughs.] It's easy when you're eight years old to go, "Oh, I'll do that!" But, you know, so far, so good! 

In looking through your catalog, I couldn't tell which of these was actually your first time in front of the camera: was it an episode of The Odd Couple, or was it Lady Sings the Blues?

Oh, it was The Odd Couple. You never forget the first one. [Laughs.] 

I would think not. 

Yeah, and then Lady Sings the Blues was a little bit later. But it wasn't much later. And that was my first film, though. But, yeah, The Odd Couple was the first TV show. When you come out here young - and I was in my early twenties - and you're just starting out, the whole industry... I mean, it feels like you're in a film. You get an opportunity where you're not just seeing but actually working with people you've been watching for years. There's almost an unreality about it. But you've just got to sort of hold onto that image of telling yourself, "You're an actor, just act like an actor, don't come out on your knees going, 'Thank you so much for letting me in!' But it was really thrilling. Anytime you worked with people who you'd watched.. It's, like, "There they are!" And that went on for decades! 

But it was just wonderful, the idea that you were working with certain people. It was always something. And I always kind of kept my feelings to myself until it was over, whatever the show was, and then I'd go and say, "I just need to tell you that... God, I've been watching you since I was a kid! And I just wanted to tell you how much I admire you." And in many ways it can continue to be like that, because there's that part of me that's always loved the industry and still admires the people in it.

Whenever I'm talking to aspiring journalists or whatever, I always tell the story about how I came out to my first Television Critics Association press tour - I'm based in Virginia - and I was so excited because I'd never been to anything like that before. And as soon as I walk into the Beverly Hilton, the first person I see is someone from the cast of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And without even thinking about it, I just said, "Oh, my God, can I get a picture?" And he politely tolerated it, thankfully.

[Yes, this is the actual picture.]

But as soon as I walked away, I was immediately on the phone to my wife, telling her how I've just met this guy...and as I'm telling her, I suddenly realize that I'm walking directly behind Dick Van Dyke. And that was the moment where I realized, "I've got to step things up when it comes to not being overwhelmed by celebrities."

Well, it's hard to get rid of! [Laughs.] It is! But you learn to compartmentalize it a little bit when you're working that way. But inside you're going, "Ohhhhhhh, look who's there!" So I get it. Absolutely. 

Since it was your first film, how was the experience of doing Lady Sings the Blues? Obviously not what you'd call a major part, but...

Oh, absolutely not a major part! In fact, one of my brothers went to see it when it first came out, and he said, "I never saw you!" I said, "Well, you obviously had to blow your nose or something, because it wasn't a long performance." [Laughs.] But it's always exciting when you're doing something for the first time, and even though I'm only the band conductor in one of the scenes, Diana Ross is there, Richard Pryor was in the scene, and Billy Dee Williams, who I actually ended up doing a play with and became friends with him for a long time.

That's just a whole different world, though. You just act professional, and you do your compartmentalizing: you breathe deeply, and you say, "It's okay, I'm just working with Diana Ross and Richard Pryor." [Laughs.] It doesn't seem quite real. Richard Pryor was just a bystander in that scene. I didn't really perform with him. But he was close enough for me to want to bow down! So it was exciting, it was brief, and... Well, when you first start working in any medium - film, TV, whatever - you feel like you're just in the way. You get called to set, and you go, "Oh! Where do I stand? What do I do?" And somebody in the crew is going, "Excuse me... Excuse me... Excuse me..." all the time! And you're just going, "I have so much to learn. I don't even know where to stand!" So it's intimidating in that way, but it's exciting, too, And at least now I know where it's appropriate to stand! 

One of the shows you've worked on that not everyone would necessarily know about is Days of Our Lives.

Yes! And, boy, do they work hard, I have to say. It's just endless! They have to do an awful lot of material in a very short time. There's just so much material. And I was used to television where you'd rehearse for awhile - if it's a half-hour show, you'd rehearse for four days! - and then the fifth day was in front of an audience or whatever. But in this case, you just got up on that set, and you were ready to work. There is no such thing as a rehearsal. They tell you where to stand, and it's, like, "All right, let's go. Action!" My goodness, it was just remarkable how much we did. 

I played a judge on the show, and there was one scene in particular where I had all these people coming into my office, and they gave me some very long dialogue. Very long. I spent the whole weekend poring over it, memorizing it, and I was ready to go. I come on the set, and first thing, a guy comes up and says, "Do you want your cue cards?" [Laughs.] And I went, "No, but I wish you'd asked me that on Friday!" Although to be fair, I'm not sure I still would've known how to read cue cards and still look like I was performing. But they do it, and I can completely understand it...and they're good at it! There's just so much material that they have to do so quickly. So I was always impressed by them and was amazed at how much they have to do. These were all actors who were used to other forms of television, but to go into their world... It's a different world, and it takes some getting used to!

You had a one-off appearance - but a very memorable one - on The Larry Sanders Show.

You know, there are some shows that every actor in town will tell you, "That's the one I want to be on!" Not necessarily because it's a great success or because millions of people are going to see it, but because you love the show. That was The Larry Sanders Show. Garry [Shandling] came up to me and talked to me after I'd been there a few days, and I said, "You realize this is the holy grail for all of us, doing your show." I meant that. It was just such a brilliant show. So doing it was exciting.

I was working with Jeffrey Tambor, and Jeffrey and I had done a lot of television together, and I know he's a remarkable actor, so I felt comfortable that way. And it was a wonderful character, and I just... Honestly, it's one of the things I enjoyed the most and that I was the most thrilled to be on. Even after as many years as I've been out here, we all still have those moments where you're still a fan at heart. I mean, I am. I don't want to claim it for everyone. And you're quiet about it, but that's how you feel. So that was really great, to be on that show. It was just wonderful. The whole cast was so brilliant, and the writing was incredible. Thank you for bringing that up, by the way. I'm glad you did!

I don't know if this will be nearly as exciting for me to bring up, but...I went onto YouTube and found the 1976 film Dogs.

[Bursts out laughing.] Well, that feeling didn't last long. Can we go back to the other one, please?

No, Dogs was really interesting. It was obviously not exactly a classic movie, but I enjoyed doing it. It was my first really big role in a film, so I really did have a good time shooting it. We were down in San Diego, I remember. But there were things about it where I had to smile, because... Well, of course, dogs were killing and eating people, but...that's logical! [Laughs.] But there was one scene where we were supposed to be building and trapping something, and before we shot, I said, "Wait a minute, this thing's flipping around. This doesn't work. We're scientists! This thing has to close tightly!" And they went [Dismissively.] "It's fine." And that sort of summed up the movie we were shooting. But I enjoyed the work. 

I mean, obviously, you're aware of what's quality and what isn't. But you can't bring it to the set. They hired you. If you didn't want to be there, then don't take the job. I wanted to be there. I was glad to be there. But I will say that I was sitting there one night some weeks later, and there'd been a lot of commercials on TV about it. Johnny Carson even came out during his monologue and said, "Do you know where your dog is tonight?" And I thought, "Oh, my God! My movie made The Tonight Show!"  But it...wasn't well-received. [Laughs.] But there are very few that I look back and think, "That was a really bad experience." Of course, there's a few. But not many at all. And it isn't a matter of the quality of the work or of the show or whatever. It's really just how they do it. But there were really nice people working on Dogs. And I was working with David McCallum, who's a wonderful actor. So I enjoyed the experience. But I knew what was coming. [Laughs.] So that wasn't a surprise.

But it did very well, I must say, in its own quiet way. I snuck into a theater one night and watched it in the back row, and there were lots of people there enjoying the show...and then there was a scene where I'm trying to shoot and kill a dog, and I shot someone by mistake. It was, like, this big, dramatic scene...and the crowd burst out laughing. And I said, "Okay, I'm out of here."

I have heard there was talk of doing a sequel called Cats. I don't know if that's actually true.

Yes, well, I hope it's a joke. Although it did well on Broadway... 

In another instance of not having a large part, but definitely a better movie, you popped up briefly in Smile. I actually only discovered it a couple of years ago, but it's a great film.

Oh, yeah, that was exciting. And I really did enjoy that, because - as you said - it really was a good movie, with a wonderful cast and a wonderful director in Michael Ritchie. So just to be a part of it at all was something I enjoyed a lot, but then to see it... It really was a nice film. So whoever asked about it, thank you, because I really am a fan of that movie and of Michael Ritchie's.

I'll fast-forward a bit for this one: you had a nice scene or two with Keanu Reeves in The Devil's Advocate. 

Yeah, I didn't work with Al Pacino, obviously. That would've been good. [Laughs.] But I worked with Keanu, and he's very talented, obviously. But you know what was the most exciting thing? And I don't mean to denigrate the movie by saying this, because it was a good movie, but…

One day I had the day off, and we were shooting in New York, so I went for a walk. And I turned the corner, and there was a very nice apartment building there - it was right near the park - and I looked up...and Muhammad Ali was standing there, alone. His people had gone to get the car for him, and he didn't have anyone with him. And Ali at this point wasn't able to talk, but he was always such a hero to me that I went over - I just said to myself, "I've got to do this" - and I knew he wouldn't be able to answer me, but he looked at you in such a way that his eyes... It's like he was talking with them. And I talked to him for maybe half a minute, maybe, telling him how much I admired him, how much my children admired him, and how much he meant to us. And then I walked away, and I was just floating. I mean, it was Muhammad Ali!

Anyway, I think that's actually my favorite memory from filming The Devil's Advocate. But I did think it was a good film. And just being in a film with Pacino... Oh, my goodness. 

Now, we move on to one of the more critically acclaimed efforts in your semi-recent work, one which I was literally watching right before I hopped on the phone with you: A Serious Man.

Well, that's a... Okay, first of all, it's the Coen brothers, so it's pretty exciting to be working in that kind of company, obviously. To be in that world, I felt the same way as I felt about The Larry Sanders Show. Everybody wants to work for the Coen brothers. I mean, it's just one of those things. I mean, maybe I'm being generous by saying "everybody," but it's pretty close! [Laughs.] They're just extraordinary. So to be able to work with them was beyond exciting, and every moment of it was terrific. Every moment of it. 

In watching the film... Well, I thought it was wonderful, but people come up to me and say, "Tell me about the ending! What does that mean?" And I go, "It means what you think it means. That's just the way they work." That's not necessarily the answer they want to hear. [Laughs.] But they were every bit as wonderful to work with as you could've imagined when you were thinking, "Oh, boy, the Coen brothers! That'd be the holy grail of film!" But I was fortunate, because their list of people who will work for them... There is no such list, because everybody will work for them, as you can see from their movies...and they'd practically do it for free, just for the joy of it. So that seemed so far out of reach for me, to work for the Coen brothers.

But it happened to be in a film that - for as much as they had so many stars that they'd worked with - they were more interested in not having some big movie stars. They wanted to be people that, yeah, you might recognize them, perhaps, but they weren't stars. And that's not an exact quote or anything, but that seemed to be the word around the industry, that that's what they were looking for. And that's what led a lot of people to be able to audition for them for that, and I think that was very fortunate, to have them look at a cast that way. They didn't want people to say, "Oh, look, there's so-and-so!" And for many of us, I think it was an opportunity to do something that we wouldn't normally get to do. I mean, it got nominated for an Oscar! So I'm glad someone liked it as much as I like to talk about it. 

In fact, one person said that your scene was actually his favorite scene of the film. 

Well, that's awfully generous of him. I thank him, particularly knowing that he had a lot of wonderful stuff to choose from. It doesn't have to be his favorite scene. [Laughs.] I'm just happy to be part of the thing. And the way I did it... Joel and Ethan wrote it that way, and I must've given them what they wanted, or I wouldn't have been there.  And Michael Stuhlbarg, he's an extraordinary actor, as you can see from his continued career. So, yeah, that was a highlight experience. One of the highlights of my film career, absolutely. 

Let's jump back to TV and talk about Kaz. That was your first series-regular role, wasn't it?

[Sadly.] Yeah. Yeah, it was. And Kaz was really special because, um... [Hesitates.] Yes, it was my first series-regular role, but Ron Leibman and I... He was like my big brother, and he was from that day on. You know, as much as you work with these wonderful actors, you don't go in there expecting to become a friend for life. I have actor friends, but this one was different. He really was my mentor, and we became great friends until he passed...and now Jessie's gone too. And that's hard, to have them both be gone now. 

You have my sincerest condolences. I obviously run in a pop culture-loving crowd, and everyone I know is still mourning Jessica Walters, because between Arrested Development and Archer, not to mention Play Misty for Me and all of the other work she did... I mean, there's just so much stuff that she did, it's hard not to mourn.

Well, yeah, that's right. And she and I... You know, I did an episode of the show she did, the won she won an Emmy for  way back when (Amy Prentiss), which... I think she was one of the first female stars to headline an hourlong show. Jessie was remarkable. We had a memorial service for her a couple of days ago, and...it's just hard to believe. It's a wake-up. We face-timed even more so after Ron had passed, just checking in, and when I didn't hear back from her, I was worried. She'd always call back. And then when I woke up to the news that morning... I had no idea. Jessie was not someone who necessarily wanted to share what was going on with her, health-wise.

But the outpouring, as you were just pointing out, is remarkable. My boys - they're in their late thirties and early forties - they're every bit as big a fan of her work as I am because of what you're talking about, the shows that she was still doing. They were enormously popular!

Yeah, my daughter is only 15, but when I told her that Lucille Bluth had passed away, she said sadly, "I know, I already saw it on social media."

Well, there you go. Exactly. With all of us, I think, when you lose someone like that, along with the disbelief comes this flood of memories of things you did together, the time you spent with her. She and I actually ended up doing a series together, too, which was wonderful...and with George Segal! And now he's gone. [Sighs.] It just shakes you, man. It's hard to accept. But they were both so loved and so respected in the industry. But what I was saying was that everyone experiences loss like this, but this is one that's going on all over the country. All over the world!

Jessie never stopped becoming this bigger-than-life type person, in terms of the industry. It was remarkable how she never stopped working. But that was her goal. She loved this business. Whether it was theater or film or TV. She was special in so many ways. The loss is stunning. The loss of Ronnie was very difficult, but I had seen him several times beforehand and knew what was coming, so in that sense, it wasn't a shock, it was just the pain and the loss of someone that meant that much to you.

Like I said, you don't necessarily make a lot of really close friends in the industry - I mean, I speak for myself, I can't speak for the industry! But that's how it's been for me: you work with them and you have this great time, and then you go to thist job and they go to that job, and you don't see each other for a long time. But that wasn't the way with Ronnie. We were friends. We talked on the phone all the time, and I saw him and Jessica all the time, too. So Kaz is special for many reasons, but starting a friendship with Ron Leibman... That was #1. 

Stay tuned for Part 2 of my interview with George Wyner, in which we discuss Fletch, Hill Street Blues, Spaceballs, and more!