Previously Unpublished: An Interview with Jim O'Heir (Part 2 of 2)

In June 2016, my buddy Matthew Aaron was gracious enough to invite me to Chicago to visit the set of his latest movie, LANDLINE, starring Mr. Aaron himself, along with Tom Arnold, Betsy Brandt, Nick Searcy, and Jim O’Heir. Alas, I wasn’t able to catch up with Betsy while I was there - her filming schedule was slightly different than the guys, so we weren’t in the city at the same time - but I did get to interview Arnold, Searcy, and O’Heir.

Oh, and there was another bonus: since Matthew had the relatively rare opportunity to film inside Wrigley Field, I actually did part of my interview with Jim O’Heir in one of the dugouts. Since I’m not a sports fan, this is one of those experiences that many of my friends felt was wasted on me, but that’s not true: just because I don’t worship at the altar of sports doesn’t mean I can’t recognize something incredibly cool as I’m experiencing it.

There was, however, one major tragedy involved in this trip, and that’s the fact that I was unable to place any of those three interviews with a paying outlet. Even just reflecting on it now still makes me grind my teeth in anger, because I knew for a fact that all three of these interviews were extremely entertaining and would’ve been a great read for whatever outlet opted to run them. That said, I’d done all three interviews with an eye toward one particular outlet, and it floored me when they didn’t want any of them, so it definitely inspired me to draw a line in the sand: since then, I haven’t done any interviews for that outlet without having confirmation of placement beforehand, and I never will again.

Anyway, I’ve apologized to Matthew on several occasions, and I’ve always said that someday I’d find a place to run these pieces, so it’s about damned time I came through on that front. Before doing that, though, I’ll also just point out - since there is often confusion on this front - that while there were actually two movies called Landline that came out in 2017, only one of them can claim to have been the first film starring LGBTQ actors to earn licensing support from a national sports league…and that’s this one, baby!

So here’s the second and final part of my chat with Jim O’Heir - if you missed the first part, just click right here to play catch-up - and just to confirm, yes, this is the part that was recorded in the dugout.

Not that you’d know. But I know. And damned if it doesn’t make it cooler to know it.

"Fastlov"—Knee High P.I. (2003)

God forbid I should forget that we wrapped up before you'd had a chance to tell me about the experience of doing Knee High P.I.

Yes! Okay, so as you know, I had done a series for Comedy Central (Strip Mall), so they were liking me, and then there was this Marty Klebba pilot... He's a little person, and he's the fastest little person on record. And I forget what kind of dwarfism he has, but it's the kind where he's proportionate. He's just very small. So then someone came up with this idea where he would be a private eye, hence Knee High P.I. And I was going to be the cop nemesis to him. I used to work with his father, who was a great guy, but then he's, like, the rogue of the family, the troublemaker.

I'll never forget, we did a scene - and this is in, like, 2002 - where he walked away, and he's just completely naked, with his ass all out and everything. I was just, like, "Comedy Central, you are really going for it." [Laughs.] So the way they did it was, it was a two-hour movie for Comedy Central, like a Movie of the Week thing, and then it was also a backdoor pilot. But then it never went further. But it was crazy. And Ion Overman, the actress who played my partner... Boy, I wonder what she's doing now. She was on The L Word for awhile, but I haven't seen her lately. I'll have to look her up!

"Frank Bubman"—Stumpy's Gang (1994)

I actually looked this up after I talked to you earlier, and I was wondering if you could describe it a little bit, because I feel like you could do a better job than I could.

Stumpy's Gang is the reason we're sitting here. It's true! I give Stumpy's Gang all the credit in the world for my career. Because it's a play, and I did it in Chicago, and it had puppets and blood, and a big vagina killed everybody in the end, and...it was, like, this crazy thing. [Laughs.] And it did so well in Chicago that it became this cult classic, and people were showing up dressed as my character and all this kind of stuff. So we said, "It's crazy enough for L.A.!" And we had all wanted to go to L.A. and give it a shot. So we brought it to L.A., and the plan was originally to run for six weeks...and we ran for four months.

And what it did for me was, it got me an agent and a manager, and it opened so many doors because there were three humans in it, and the rest were puppets, but the other humans were really just cameos, so it was basically me with these puppets. So it was kind of a showcase for me, and it made things so much easier, because all of a sudden I had an agent, which meant I could start auditioning for TV and film, and then the bills were being paid. So, yeah, I give Stumpy - that little mutant who spews blood - all the credit.

It sounds like a cross between Meet the Feebles and Avenue Q.

Yeah, that makes sense! Some people are, like, "You guys should put that up again!" I don't know if I physically could! Because I was in my thirties when I first did it, and it's so physically demanding. I'm 54 now! I don't think so.

Was it ever committed to video, do you know?

It's somewhere out there, I've never seen it. I hate theater on video. It just looks terrible. So I've never gone out of my way to find it! But I'm sure it's out there.

"Husband"—Star Trek: Voyager (2000)

I know this was a small part, but...

Oh, my God, but the crazy shit about that is... I was living in a condominium in Hollywood, and the guy who bought it, one of the reasons he bought it was because I was on Voyager! He was such a Star Trek fan. I had, I think, one scene. I was just called "Husband.” And I had, like, this vagina-looking thing on my forehead! [Laughs.] But you know these Trekkies: you only need to be in one episode, and they love you to death! And the kid... His father was buying it for him, and he insisted. "He was on Voyager! You gotta!" And they bought it. Because I'd done one episode of Voyager. That's crazy! 

Hey, some people make a living at conventions by being on an episode of Star Trek. But you...

I sold a condo because of it. Yep! [Laughs.]

“Head Chef”—The Rockford Files: Godfather Knows Best (1996)

I will admit that I haven't seen this, or if I have, it's been long enough that I don't know the answer to this question: did you even have a scene with James Garner?

I did, and it's weird that you would mention it, because just two days ago I got a tweet from somebody saying, "You're a chef on a Rockford Files movie!" It was one of those two-hour movies they would do. I was a chef, it was one of the first thing I did when I got here, and it was exciting because it was James Garner! He was super sweet. I think I only had two scenes...maybe. Maybe one? But it was fun. I was in the white outfit with the hat and the whole thing. It was exciting! 

I forget who I interviewed who told me this, but it was someone who did a Rockford Files, and they said, "It was one of the greatest experiences of my early career, because I was paranoid and didn't know what to expect, and I was, like, 'Oh, my God, this is James Garner!' I was so intimidated! And right about the time I thought that, there was a knock on my dressing room door: 'Hi, I'm Jim. We're gonna be workin' together.'"

He was a sweet man. A sweet, sweet, sweet guy. That's the classic Hollywood, in my opinion. That's who people should be emulating, not some of the crazies. That's who people should look to and go, "That's how it should be done. That's class."

"Doctor" - It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia (2013)

JO: Well, that just became a bit. I don't know if you saw it, but I don't speak. It's just a visual. The director of the episode was Heath Collins, and I had done a movie for him. And he said, "Would you ever want to be on Sunny?" I said, "Dude, it's, like, one of my all-time favorite shows. I would love to be on it!" And so he called me a few months later and said, "Well, there's this doctor thing, and it'll kind of just be a bit." I go, "Who's in the scene?" He said, "All of 'em." I said, "I'm in!" I was there maybe 45 minutes. [Laughs.] And we just shot a scene. I'm a doctor who's there, and I look down at Danny Devito...and that's it! But they were all there. I love those people. I just love that show, so I was thrilled.

"Jerry Gergich" - Parks & Recreation (2009-2015 & 2020)

You knew I was going to ask about it eventually, so I guess I'll start by asking how it came about for you in the first place. I know the series was originally kind of being defined as a spinoff of The Office.

Yeah, which was a big mistake. From day one, they never really wanted it to be that, but unfortunately some people were reading Amy's character as that. So they had to regroup. Season one was only six episodes, so I always tell people, "Start with season two, you're gonna fall in love immediately, and then go back to season one." There's some great stuff in season one, but the characters are a little different there. We hadn't found the voice yet. 

I don't know if you know this, but I auditioned for Ron Swanson. Everybody did. It was the job you wanted. The word was out: "Amy Poehler is getting a show." Well, who wouldn't want to be in that? I never thought in a million years I'd get Ron Swanson, but in the moment, I thought, "I just want to do a good job, and hopefully down the road they'll think of me for a guest star or something like that." And a couple of weeks later, my agent called and said, "They want you to read this role of Jerry." I went back, and...from what I understand, Greg Daniels said to Mike Schur, "Put him at a desk. This'll work itself out." [Laughs.] They didn't know exactly what to do, but he liked me and thought I was funny or whatever, so... "This'll work itself out." And thankfully it did.

At what point did they decide that Jerry was the office sad sack?

Oh, it was written by Dan Goor. It was when Louis C.K. was dating Amy's character, I believe, and we were trying to find out dirt on each other in the office, who could find out the worst thing about each other. I didn't even want to do it, but I did it because everyone was doing it, and the only thing I could come up with was... At the time, Mark Brendanawicz - played by Paul Schneider - was still on the show, and I'm, like, "Oh, guess who has an unpaid parking ticket..." Like it's a big deal. And he goes, "Oh, really? And guess whose adopted mother was arrested for marijuana possession?" And I go, "What?" He goes, "You didn't know she smoked pot?" I said, "I didn't know I was adopted!" [Laughs.] And they said that they realized right then, that's who Jerry / Gary would be. He would be that guy. And I always give Dan all the credit in the world, because... I mean, maybe they would've come up with something else, but it solidified my place on that show. It was, like, "Okay, that's who he is. We know who he is now. He's going to be the put-upon guy, the office dumping ground." I love that.

And when did they decide to deliver the flipside and give you Christie Brinkley for a wife?

Well, because every writing session, they'll tell you, was just coming up with terrible things to do to Jerry. [Laughs.] They said it got to the point where it was, like, "We have to do other stuff, too!" Because it's so much fun to come up with that. And then Mike Schur said, "Okay, here's the problem: if everything is terrible for this guy, he's gonna blow his head off! So let's give him the most amazing home life of anyone on the show." And that's what he did: he gave me Christie Brinkley, he gave me three beautiful daughters who adore Jerry with everything in them. They think he's the best thing that's ever happened. And he is the luckiest of all of them: he's got a family who loves him. Work is work. It's how he pays his bills. But it's just work. Family is what's important to Jerry. So that's why they did it. And I loved it. 

How did you feel about the ending? Were you glad that they gave the series the opportunity to wrap up, or would you have preferred to go another season?

Oh, I'd go for a hundred years. We had so much fun. But they ended it exactly when they should've ended it. Bob Greenblatt talked to Amy and Mike and said, "This is your call. What do you guys want to do? Do you want to keep going? Do you want to end? What do you want to do?"

Because at that point, even though our ratings were never great, they'd been counting Live +3, and our numbers were good there, and we were one of the top shows in households earning over $100K. So things that they look at when they decide what's going on. And one year - I think it was season four - TIME Magazine called us the best show on television, so we had the press behind us. But Amy - and I couldn't agree with her more - she wanted to go out like The Mary Tyler Moore Show, where Mary said, "We're done," rather than the audience going, "Oh, we're done." And there are certain shows - including shows that I love - that went on too long, and it breaks my heart to watch the episodes past where it should've ended, because it's, like, "That's... Oh, you should've stopped! You should've stopped!"

But, no, Amy said, "Give us a final 13, and we'll wrap it up." And then we did time jumps, and...we were all over the place! And my ending... I think they gave him the dream ending: I end up running the damned town, I'm beloved by everybody, I have a 100th birthday party, I'm still married to Christie, who still looks like she's 30... It was amazing. Because some people were, like, "Were you happen with how they took care of your character?" I couldn't have come up with anything better. I couldn't! It was amazing. Just amazing. Yeah, I loved it. I loved the ending. I cried like a bitch. [Laughs.] But I think it's an amazing finale.

Finales are tough. I think they're so tough, and some of my favorite shows didn't do it right. I wasn't a big fan of Seinfeld's. I wasn't a big fan of The Sopranos. There's certain things I love about those, but... I'm sure you saw the ending of Six Feet Under. That was amazing! As she drove that car, and we got to see what happened to each character? So I loved the way Parks ended. And I don't write it, so it's not like it's because I'm involved! I was just an actor on it, so I don't take any credit for it. But I like knowing what happens to people. I really think Parks nailed it.

"Gil Furnald" - Boston Legal (2004)

JO: I was a cross-dressing Santa.

You sure were!

[Laughs.] And my memory of it was that Bill Shatner - who I've worked with since - was a little uncomfortable with that whole thing. And maybe that's just my interpretation. I'm not saying he was or he wasn't. But I felt that he was. And he was, like, "I'm glad all your scenes are with Spader." [Laughs.] And they mostly were, which was awesome. James is an intense actor, and you can tell he has one goal, and that's the product. He wanted good product on that show, and he was amazing. I loved working with him. There's a scene where I'm sitting on his lap, and...he's just a trouper. He's old-school, as far as how he works. He doesn't let other people do coverage for him. There was one time where all I had to do was turn and look at him on the stand in the courtroom...and he came in for that shot. Now, he didn't have to do that. And a lot of people wouldn't have. But there he sat. He goes, "Well, you have to look at me!" It's awesome. He blew me away. 

I love hearing stories like that about actors making a point of doing their own coverage. 

Well, there are shows like... [Hesitates.] Oh, it's off the air now, so I can say it, I guess. On Charmed, those girls wouldn't do other people's coverage. So if a guest star was there, they'd do their coverage with the guest star, and then they'd leave! That's rotten, I think. I mean, we're actors, we're speaking to each other, we're supposed to be there for each other, to be able to look each other in the eye. That's what acting is!  So that makes me crazy. But Spader, he was right there. It was amazing.

As evidenced by this role and several others I've brought up, you've obviously done a number of one-off roles in your career. Do you have a favorite that I haven't mentioned?

Boy, so many... I mean, overall in my career, Parks is without a doubt the best thing ever. Not even the fact that it went so long or whatever. Just the experience with those people. Nothing better, ever. Um... Because I was younger at the time, I really enjoyed doing Harvey in Vancouver. It was my first time traveling where people flew me first class, gave me a condominium because I was going to be there for six weeks. So that was a special time. Plus, it was with Leslie Nielsen, who I was a big fan of, so that was an exciting time. 

So did you walk away with a fart machine story, then?

Oh, well, everybody did, because it never stopped! [Laughs.] It. Never. Stopped. You sat down... [Makes a fart sound.] No matter what. 

I don't know if you saw the oral history of Airplane! that I compiled for the AV Club, but there's an entire chapter about his fart machine. Every cast member, the writers and directors... Everyone had a story. 

From what I remember, my guess is that Swoosie Kurtz wasn't really into it. [Laughs. ] But I'm an idiot: that shit makes me laugh. So I never had a problem with it. But he brought it everywhere. Dinners, everywhere. But he was a sweet man. A very sweet man. 

"Adoption Agency Worker" - Friends (2004)

JO: That was years and years after I did Ed. I did the last season of Friends. But when I saw Matt, he said, "Jim was in my shitty movie!" [Laughs.] Because they all joked about their shitty movies that they'd done. Like, [Jennifer] Aniston, I think she said hers was Leprechaun. I can't remember what [David] Schwimmer said. But Matt was excited to tell everybody. "He was in mine!" It was great to see him, because he's an awesome dude. He's a really nice man. And we actually live in the same neighborhood. I see him every once in awhile at the grocery store!

"Big Arnie" - American Dreams (2004)

JO: Oh, yeah, he owned, like, an electronics store or some damned thing, and I was selling black and white TVs, and we made a commercial for it. Oh, my God, that one totally slipped my mind. I don't have any special memories from that, other than the fact that Arnie was BIG and LOUD and just one of those guys who's, like, "What do you need? What do you need? What can I get ya?" I do remember that. But, my gosh, I totally forgot about that show...as did most of  America. Hello! [Laughs.] 

"Mayor Rob Ford" - Jimmy Kimmel Live (2013)

And from America to Canada to close things out: did you ever heard from Rob Ford after you played him on Jimmy Kimmel Live?

I never heard from him. I heard from Kimmel about it. Because, of course, now Ford's gone. But here's what a great guy Kimmel is. You know, everybody was doing the bits about Rob Ford, and he had me come in and play him and stuff, but when Kimmel found out he was sick, he was on the phone with him: "What can I do for you? What do you need?"

That's who Kimmel is. He's got a huge heart. And that was it for the bits. The minute he knew he was sick, no more. Jimmy and I emailed back and forth after Rob Ford died. Jimmy's a sweet man. Yes, he does comedy, so there's impersonations and stuff. But ultimately, asking, "What can I do for you?" That's who Jimmy is. And I just think that's awesome.