INTERVIEW: Paget Brewster on the New Season of 'Criminal Minds Evolution,' the Time She Answered Phones for a 'Penthouse of Ill Repute,' Her Techno Cover of 'Age of Aquarius,' and Much More

She also talks about having a pitch-perfect fangirl encounter with Amanda Plummer "in the wild" and needing a bit of a pep talk the first time she worked with Mariska Hargitay

When it comes to tallying up my favorite people that I’ve ever interviewed, one name that’s invariably on the short list is Paget Brewster. Not just because she’s a multifaceted performer - she can do comedy! drama! music! - but because she’s a legitimate nice person. Indeed, the phrase “swell dame” comes to mind, but maybe that’s just because I’ve listened to too many installments of Thrilling Adventure Hour.

My point is, whenever there’s a legitimate opportunity to chat with her about a new project, I’m always down for it…and, thankfully, she generally is, too. As such, we hopped on the phone once again last week, during which time we talked about the new season of Criminal Minds, what to expect from Emily Prentiss’ arc this time around, her excitement about the return of Paul F. Tompkins as a guest star, the chances of seeing her in the eventual Community movie, and much more.

Join us, won’t you?

So I've watched the first two episodes of the new season...

Paget Brewster: What'd you think?

I think it's fantastic. Of course, I would say that, being a longtime fan of the series. But it definitely continues with that same new tone that you guys started when you came to Paramount+.

Oh, cool! Yeah, it's a weird hybrid, really, because it's kind of lit and advertised and shot as if they want it to be The Wire. [Laughs.] You know, like a gritty drama. But we're still trying to maintain all of the elements that the audience likes that were on CBS. But we can take more time to tell a story. And it's serialized, which...we didn't really do that before.

And yet you even found room for a fart joke for Aisha Tyler.

Oh, right! [Laughs.] Wait, was that in episode two, when they're in the car?

Exactly.

I was so excited to go to work the day after I saw that car scene, to go tell the focus-pullers how amazing they were. That scene in the car, pulling focus with the mirror, and Rebecca (Nicole Pacent) in the backseat and Aisha in the front... I just thought that was beautiful work. I thought they did such a great job, the whole crew, in that scene. I loved it. I was so excited to go to work and tell them. [Laughs.] "You guys nailed it! You guys fucking nailed it!" 

The whole series looks beautiful.

Yeah, our crew is amazing. I mean, there are moments that look beautiful, but of course, being an actress, I just see, "I should never be lit from the side! Why am I doing this show?" [Laughs.] I'm at the age where I need Jean Smart lighting. I need Pamela Anderson lighting. I need full frontal, my own china-ball above and below the camera lighting. But what are you gonna do? I mean, if I refuse to get a facelift, then I just have to live with it!

Well, you're fully embracing your age. Not every actress is willing to do that.

I am! I am, but...that doesn't mean sometimes I don't look at an episode and go, "When did my neck start looking like that?" But it's so worth it. I love it. And we're so lucky. The crew... We got everybody back, every single department, every single person came back from our Paramount+ season one. Crew, hair, wardrobe, makeup, set design, lighting, production design... Everybody came back. And especially after the strikes, everyone was just so relieved. The writers went to work the next day! It was, like, "We've gotta get this going as soon as possible! We have to shooting as soon as possible!" And we did. And...I don't know if you saw, but we just got the order for season three. 

I did see that. Fantastic news.

So we're gonna start shooting in mid-August. We're all really excited about that. Originally the deal was, like, "No, we're only doing 10 per calendar year." But while we were shooting season two - I guess like a month ago - we started talking about, "Hey, what if our show runner just goes and asks them, 'Hey, because everyone got hammered from the strikes, and people were still coping with losing money and insurance from COVID, we thought, 'What if we just throw that out of our contract and ask if we can come back earlier to do season three?' Would they say 'yes'?" So Erica Messer was talking with ABC and CBS and saying, "Is there a world where this can happen?" And we were all, like, our fingers were crossed. 

And we actually didn't know it was happening. No one told us. But Erica said, "I'm hopeful." We knew they were working on our contracts, to just say, "This is season three, and we're starting, we're not going to ask for more money, we're not going to do anything but stick with the deal that we made if you say 'yes' and pick up season three to start shooting as soon as the writers can bank enough scripts." Because the writers were hired, and after finishing episode 10 of season two, were writing episode one of season three in the hope that they would say "yes" and officially pick us up. And I was looking at Deadline, and it was announced. I was, like, "What?!" [Laughs.] So I sent it in our group text - we have, like, a nine-person group text - and I was, like, "Here we go!" They didn't tell us. It's just how this show works. Like, you've sent me things that nobody told us. Nobody tells us anything! If you had looked at Deadline 30 seconds before I did, you would've sent it to me!

It's true. I would have.

But I don't care. I don't care how we get the good news. We just want the good news. So we're all just really, really excited. Because TV's changed so much, and it's cold out there! And we love our little home...next to the train tracks. In our non-soundproof stages. It's awesome. Sorry, that was a long ramble! Would you like to actually ask some questions? [Laughs.]

Well, thankfully, it was a solid ramble. And this is actually less a question than observation, but I was pleasantly surprised to see Clark Gregg show up.

Oh, yeah. And that was fun because Clark is friends with Erica Messer. They live near each other. So she, I think, just asked him herself if he would come and play the director of the FBI. And he and I played Hilary Duff's mom and dad on How I Met Your Father, so when we did the table read... We didn't know, so we all kept asking, "Who is it? Who's gonna be the director?" In the Zoom, we all show up, and I kind of forgot that the network and studio is also watching, because their video is not turned on, so when we were all assembled to start the table read, I was, like, "Clark Gregg! The last man I kissed, everybody!" [Laughs.] And then I was, like, "Oh, no, no, no, no, no! Besides my husband!" But he's a real dream to work with. He's so prepared and professional and funny and fun. He's just perfect as the director. We're just really lucky we got him.

Of course, he's got all that S.H.I.E.L.D. history behind him, too.

Yeah, I know! 

How would you describe where Emily's arc goes over the course of this season? Inasmuch as you can talk about it.

[Cackles.] Emily's arc. Oh, boy. It's a lot. It's a whole lot, Will. It's a lot. Um... She definitely struggles with guilt over the death of Doug Bailey. She is so desperate to get to the bottom of Gold Star that she suffers from what is called confirmation bias in law enforcement, where an investigator or detective or agent starts to see the case they're looking at with blinders on, and they are unwilling to listen to any evidence or theories that don't support what they think is already happening. And it's understandable, and there's a reason why it happens, because people who actually are in law enforcement are driven to make a case and support the victims and save people from criminals. And it's human! So she and Rossi are at odds as the shows progress, because Rossi is recognizing how Prentiss is suffering, and Prentiss is unwilling to get help...but she's coming after Rossi for not seeking help after he was trapped in the shipping container.

You can see a little bit of that at the end of the second episode, the tension between the two of them.

Yeah, and it continues for a little bit. And yet there are also moments throughout the season where they depend on each other in a very profound and vital way, as co-workers and friends. So it was beautifully written, and anytime I get to do a scene with Joe, I'm ecstatic. There's a lot coming that I can't talk about - we're not allowed to give out any spoilers - but there are several journeys that each character makes this season about... [Long pause.] Let me see, I don't know how to articulate this. There is the job, and there is the person who does the job. And there are moments of guilt or suppressing their emotion about things, or trying not to respond to how dire the situation is. They hate having to work with Voit, but they need to work with Voit. I'm not sure...I'm being articulate about this. I'm not giving you a good soundbite! "Everyone goes on a journey..." [Laughs.]

But there are a lot of interpersonal dynamics that we get into about trusting each other as agents doing this job, and trusting the department that we worked for, and having to trust what Voit is telling us in order to try to find out what Goldstar is and who do we need to be looking for and who do we need to protect. It's very layered and deep, and it's a very deep conspiracy that we end up uncovering. So you think you're going in one direction with these cases, and then all of a sudden we're going in a completely different direction. Are we not understanding what the conspiracy is? Are we not understanding who the bad guys are? Or is Voit lying to us about what's going on? So there's a lot of pressure inside the team with each other and in dealing with the director and dealing with Voit.

And we have R.J. Hatanaka has joined the cast as this sort of military intelligence fixer guy that we're kind of using slightly possibly maybe a little bit illegally... [Laughs.] And going to the director and saying, "Hey, can we use this guy?" He was in season one, but now he's sort of being folded into the team this season, and there's some really interesting stuff coming up with him and Penelope Garcia. And the character that Felicity Huffman came on the play... [Pauses.] I think they released this already, so I'm not gonna get in trouble, but...she plays Jason Gideon's ex-wife. They were divorced before Gideon was killed. You know, when Mandy [Patinkin] left the show, his character was murdered by a serial killer he had been investigating. So Jill Gideon is brought on for a few episodes, and...I don't know what I can tell you more than that. But that lady...can memorize some dialogue like I've never seen.

Well, I mean, she does come from the Aaron Sorkin school.

Oh, my God! I mean, it was epic. Epic! Wait 'til you see what she does. It's really, really exciting how she fits into the stories this year. It's great. It's really great. And we get Paul F. Tompkins back! My crazy old neighbor Brian Garrity, from... What was that, season 15? You know what, I need to look it up...

Inexplicably, there is no photo available of Paul F. Tompkins on CRIMINAL MINDS, so we’re using a photo from DRUNK HISTORY instead. You’re welcome.

That's funny, because that's something I was going to ask you about, because I realized I'd never actually asked you how much fun it was to actually get to work with Paul in that context. 

I mean, usually we work together for free! [Laughs.] You know, we're doing, like, stage shows or improv or Thrilling Adventure Hour. So it's so exciting to be, like, "Oh, it's a real set! There's craft service and a medic!" Normally we're just, like, taking turns changing in a bathroom backstage!

The thing is, he's so talented and so funny, and...I was so proprietary over Paul on set! [Laughs.] Because anytime anyone would come up to me - and everyone did, because he had so many fans in the crew - and they're, like, "Oh, my God, do you know who that is?" And I would be like... [Snaps.] "Yeah! Yeah! He's been one of my best friends for 25 years. I know who Paul is!" I really did! It was so bizarre. Because I so cherish our friendship, and he's been one of my best friends for so long. The crew was so excited that he was there, people who go to his Varietopia or listen to his podcasts were so excited to meet him and talk to him, and he's such a gentleman and just so giving on set with his time and his attention. 

He's a great actor, and not just comedically. I think he's one of the most underestimated actors working today. He's just... He can do anything. And he can sing, he can dance, he can do stand-up, he can do improv... The guy is really incredibly, incredibly talented. So I was so proud that my friend was on set...and I, like, needed everybody to know that I knew him first, like he was a band that no one had heard of that suddenly became huge. [Laughs.] It was very interesting. It was really, really interesting. And he was going to be in another episode, and we couldn't get him, because he was touring! We wanted him... I mean, I think everybody wants him in as many episodes as we get with him, but the guy's busy! He's touring. He's, like, "No I'm in North Carolina, I can't go shoot tomorrow!" And I've been telling him daily any updates we have about starting season three, so he knows. I'm, like, "I don't know what they're writing, but Brian Garrity is not done yet! We're gonna probably need more Brian Garrity, so..."

I would do anything to get that character back on the show. And he's such a hit. Other directors of episodes that he wasn't in, they'd show up to direct and go, "Oh, I saw the scenes with that guy, Brian Garrity..." And I'd be, like, "Yeah, my best friend? One of my best friends for 25 years? Yeah, Paul F. Tompkins. That's his name." [Laughs.] They love him! They love him. The directors, they just want Garrity!

As they should. I'm a massive PFT fan, believe me.

He deserves it. He's just so talented. 

Okay, so because of your remarks during the "Thirst Tweets" video, I am obliged to ask you about your three-day stint answering phones for...a dominatrix?

So it wasn't... [Hesitates.] There was a dominatrix there. It was actually just a...penthouse of ill repute. It was, like, 34th and Lexington in New York City. This was in... Hold on. 1989? '88? I mean, I had just graduated high school in '87. I think it was '88, I was 19, and I answered an ad in the back of The Village Voice to do telephones. Now, first of all, I believe prostitution should be legal nationally. I think they should be protected and taxed... So I have no judgement against that profession. It's not something I wanted to do. For me personally, I wanted to answer the phones. I wanted to see, "What is this life like?" Because I did grow up pretty... Everything was pretty great where I grew up. We were not exposed to high crime or desperate living. We grew up, my brother and I, we were on a boarding school campus! So anything on the other side of the train tracks, to me, is fascinating. So I wanted to work in, technically, a whorehouse! But...penthouse of ill repute is probably more respectful. 

It was my job to answer the phones and describe the girls that we had and set up appointments, and when the client would come in... It was this big penthouse apartment with, like, four or five bedrooms, and the sort of dining room was where two of us were on the phones. And then the ladies of the night would come in, and the client, if they hadn't made an appointment already, they would choose who they wanted to...spend some time with. And I would go into the kitchen and pour them... [Pauses.] It was Chivas, but...it wasn't Chivas. I would pour "Chivas on ice." That was just what the madam wanted us to do! So myself or the other phone lady would go into the kitchen and bring out a "Chivas." But I knew it wasn't really Chivas. We poured well alcohol into the Chivas bottle over and over again. [Laughs.] So it was just some crappy scotch or whatever! 

And one of the clients who came in, when the girls came in, he said he wanted it to be me. And I said, "Oh, I don't do that. I just do the phones." And then the madam took me into another room, and she was, like, "You're blowing it! You can make this much money..." And I'm, like, "No, no, no, listen, no judgement! I'm not... That's just not for me. I'm uninterested in sleeping with that gentleman, and I'm just gonna do the phones." And he left. So then she got mad at me. And he kept calling and offering more money! So the fourth day I was supposed to go to work, I called and I said I had to move to Maryland to get surgery for my cat. Thinking, "Oh, if you lie with specificity, that's how you get away with it." [Laughs.] And I just said, "I quit, I'm sorry I can't give two weeks' notice, I need to get my car to Maryland. I have to move to Maryland to get cat surgery." I didn't even have a cat!

Anyway, that was the end of my work in prostitution! But it did definitely reinforce the thought that everyone who chooses to do that for a living should be protected by law enforcement. It should be above board. They should be tested, they should have access to medical care, and they should pay taxes. I just think making prostitution illegal just makes so much more illegal stuff happen around it. I'm not a political creature, I don't discuss politics... I don't know if I would consider that political or advocacy. I don't know what that would be. It's just that my personal belief was definitely validated by seeing the people who did that for a living and how they lived and who they were.

It was a spectrum. I mean, it ran the gamut. There was one young lady who definitely had a heroin problem, and then there were two girls who were college chicks. You would never guess. And then there was one lady who was a stockbroker, and she had plenty of money and dressed beautifully...and when the stock market closed, she would come to the penthouse and turn tricks. Because she loved it. I mean, she was the most optimistic, happy, healthy, centered person. She just loved doing it. Whatever it was for her, she loved it. It was fascinating. 

So here's a question that no one else would ask you: how did you come to take on the identity of Fabu?

Oh, Fabu...That was with a techno band called the Sleeping Pills, with a guy named Michael Hornburg. Our big club hit was that we covered "The Age of Aquarius" by the Fifth Dimension. I had a full length Pucci velvet trench coat that I bought back when you could get that cheaper, in the early '90s. In New York City, you could still buy Pucci. I sold that jacket - I want to say 15 years ago - for $1200. But I had that full-length Pucci trench coat, I bought a blonde wig and put glasses on, and just did basically drag queen makeup to be Fabu. I don't know where I got the idea. I was in another band that was kind of a punk rock band, and we were going to Wigstock when they had it in Tompkins Square Park, and I worked in the Pyramid Club on drag night and lesbian night, so the  drag queens were all fabulous. So I thought, "Well, if I'm going to be in a techno band for fun, as a joke..." I had a crewcut. I had brown hair chopped in a crew cut. That does not work in techno. Or it didn't then! So I knew I had to be, like, a booby blonde. So I did fake pushup boobs and a blonde wig, and Fabu... That was just what the drag queens would say. "Oh, that's fabu!" So I didn't come up with Fabu. The beautiful Lower East Side drag queens came up with Fabu! 

What I think is fascinating is that even on Discogs, where it details who did what on which album, it doesn't cross-reference you as Fabu. You have your own page, and Fabu has her own page.

Oh, my God. Is there a picture?

Sadly, there is not.

Well, I probably wore the Pucci jacket with, like, short-shorts. I think I had tall, lace-up stripper boots. And then the glasses and the wig, so...you would never know it was me anyway. It could've been anybody! But we did a couple of club gigs and got paid money. Like, we all split a thousand dollars or something. [Laughs.] But that was a lot of money then! I mean, I was bartending. We didn't make that kind of money! But Michael Hornburg, his wife... He was married to a woman named Darcey, they got divorced, but she wrote the book Suicide Blonde. They broke up, but I remember we were rehearsing in their apartment in Brooklyn, and he wrote all the music...except for, obviously, "Age of Aquarius." But, yeah, that was fun! I regret nothing. 

By the way, on your actual Discogs page, there are only two things listed for you: the Mechanical Bride's "Swamp Thing" single, and then it says that you contributed vocals to a Roger Manning album.

[Point of clarification: this is simply Roger Manning, as opposed to Roger Manning, Jr. of Jellyfish fame.]

That is correct. And... Well, I guess they don't include Thrilling Adventure Hour, because that was a DVD of a live performance, so that's different.

True. But there's one song that's not on Discogs that is on IMDb that I was actually going to ask you about. I'd wondered if you were planning on any further musical collaborations with your husband, because I stumbled upon Swanny's "What I Want."

Oh, right! Well, we put out a song a couple of years ago. We just recorded it and put it on iTunes or whatever. "Drove to the Ocean," I think it's called? That's me and Steve. Yeah, Steve writes and records music with two partners: David Swanson from their band Whirlwind Heat, and Jaffe Zinn, who's actually a film director. And both of those guys will come out here - David lives in Detroit, and Jaffe lives in Minneapolis - and stay with us for a week, and they go into a studio with Steve and they just write and record for a week straight! 15 hours a day! And then they put it up on iTunes. And they have pages on Spotify, Pandora, all those things. Swanny is with David Swanson, and Folded Light is the name of the band with Jaffe Zinn.

So, yeah, I think spoke French on something, and I did backup vocals. If they need a chick for anything, I come down out of the kitchen, do a little singing or talking, and then I come back inside! [Laughs.] I wish we could do more together, but unfortunately all the songs my husband and I come up with together are all the dumb songs you come up with in a marriage that no one wants to buy. We joke about how we would make the worst Broadway musical in the history of mankind, with hits such as "The House Smells Like Fish" or things like that. The sort of joke songs that you sing to each other to make each other giggle. We don't actually write. We spend too much time laughing. The key to a good marriage and a nonexistent album!

So is there any chance of seeing Frankie Dart pop up in the Community movie?

Well, yeah, they reached out. And we were gonna shoot it in July, and then I think they just ran into some scheduling problems. It's really hard to get those guys all back together. I mean, every actor in that show is on other shows and movies and in different parts of the world. I think there was some funny Twitter beef where McHale said something about how it was Donald's fault because Childish Gambino was touring, and then Donald was, like, "Why am I getting all of these hate tweets?!" [Laughs.] But that's McHale. Joel McHale is the guy that will bully you with love. That's just part of his persona. So I don't believe it's actually Donald Glover's fault at all that they weren't able to schedule it for this summer.

But they've reached out to everybody. I think the idea is to get people like me and [Jonathan] Banks and John Oliver - a lot of guest people - to have everyone do at least do a day or a scene or whatever. And they said they are setting that up for the beginning of 2025. So I think the idea is to try and schedule the shoot...I don't know when, sometime between January and June of 2025. So hopefully they'll call again, because I would do anything. Frankie Dart could just walk in and silently put a file down on a table and leave, and I'd be happy. I just want to be involved. I love those guys. I love 'em!

One of my readers asked about it and said, "I would like anything on the Community movie, which I will not believe in until I'm watching it."

[Laughs.] That's a real Greendaler. I love it! That's great.

I'll hit you with one of the questions that I used to regularly ask the folks I was interviewing for Q Magazine: who was the first person you remember meeting where you had to keep from going full fangirl?

There's two. One was in the wild, when I saw Amanda Plummer in a Gap in Santa Monica. And I started slightly hyperventilating. And I walked over to her, and I very quietly said, "Excuse me, Miss Plummer." And she turned around and said, "Yes?" [Laughs.] I said, "I just want to thank you for your work. You've made me very happy." And she went... [In a pitch-perfect impression of Amanda Plummer.] "Oh! That's nice!" And I walked away. And I was like... [Gasps.] "I did it right! I know I just did that right. I nailed that! I just let her know that she's doing great work!" 

But meeting Mariska Hargitay for the first time... Well, I'd actually met her at an audition eons ago, decades ago, for The Larry Sanders Show. I had met her in L.A. before she was on SVU. But I love SVU, so when I went to the first guest appearance, it was when it was Mariska and [Christopher] Meloni, and Brian Dennehy played my father, who's dying, and I'm the angry daughter that Stabler is trying to get to visit her father. Mariska... She is a magical creature. She is so tall and so funny, and it boggles my mind that she still loves playing that same part. I think there are very few people that can continue to enjoy it. Do you know what I mean? Just doing any show for that long is... Well, it's unusual. So unusual, in fact, that I think she's shot more scripted episodes of television than any female in the history of television! But she loves it! And she's always invested and always having a good time and working really hard, and...it's incredible to see. She's a remarkable person, and she's a remarkable person to watch work.

And I did actually lose it. I think it was the first scene I shot with her. I lost my place. Like, I couldn't get through the lines. And she took me aside and said, "Hey! You're okay! What's going on?" [Laughs.] And it wasn't that I was afraid of her. I just suddenly had performance anxiety. And it hadn't happened on Friends. It was something about that drama that...I was just kind of paralyzed. And she talked me down. And she was like - and it's a line I stole from her, and I say it to people all the time now - "Our editors are great, this is all gonna be fun, it's not high stakes. You got the job because you're good. Everything's fine. Just breathe, and we'll go do this." And I was like... [Deep breath.] "Okay, Mariska!" She should be the patron saint of acting. She and Joe Mantegna, they should share that title. So, yeah, that was a little panicky for me. Nervous, butterflies... Not even butterflies in your stomach. You feel like you're full of sparklers! Have you ever almost been in a car crash, and your body tenses, and you can't hear anything? That's what it was like working with Mariska for the first time! And I love her. I just think she's great. She's just one in a billion, and I'm so lucky I got to work with her. 

Okay, so lastly, when I interviewed you for Random Roles a thousand years ago, you talked about the whole thing with Criminal Minds and leaving and how that was a massive issue at the time. When time passed and things like the #MeToo movement started occurring, did you feel any sense of "thank goodness" as a result of that finally happening?

[Hesitates.] Are you asking about Les Moonves and being fired? 

Awkwardly, but yes, that's where I was going with that.

Honestly, I had never witnessed that behavior from Les personally, and nobody I know. But I was mortified when I found out what Ileana Douglas went through. I mean, I've met her, and she's lovely, and...that was a terrible crime. And the fact that he was doing it to co-workers... I'm not surprised. And I think there are plenty of other people - men and women - in positions of power who have abused that position of power that have not been outed or discovered. So it wasn't like... [Pauses.] Schadenfreude's not the right word. I really felt sad. I just felt sad for his victims. 

Listen, pretty much any actress my age, I can pretty much guarantee you at some point at least once something inappropriate has happened. Someone has attempted to abuse their position. But the things that have happened to me, that I'm unwilling to discuss with you or with anyone... I did a documentary called That Gal Who Was in That Thing, and I talk about a situation where I was.. I guess the legal term would be sexually assaulted by a co-star while shooting. But I don't want to name names. I don't want to be public. I have told the people I work with and my representatives what the situation was and [said] don't let your clients be in that position with this person. But it didn't stop me from continuing. 

And the really scary, heartbreaking thing about all of the accounts about what Moonves did, or Harvey Weinstein, or anyone you name that has been found guilty of criminal activity, is the people who stopped trying to act or believing in their dream, or they decided to stop being an executive at a network or an agent or a publisher... Anytime that anyone was molested or bullied or beaten out of pursuing their dream is just awful and tragic and painful. So I never felt, like, "Yippee! That guy got..." All I thought was, "That's just awful." So I'm glad I didn't witness that, but...it's a horrible thing that it happened. And it's happening now. I think it's happening a hell of a lot less, but I think it's still happening now. In every industry. It's not just this one. 

This one just happens to be one that's high-profile.

[Thinking I was referring to Moonves specifically.] That was high-profile. And was I a fan of the guy? No. Not at all. But what I felt most of all was, "That's just awful." 

I remembered how, when you told me about working on your first movie, you were on the cusp of leaving the business yourself but then soldiered onward, thankfully.

Yeah, but that was... That was just an ugly on-location experience. [Laughs.] Of everybody cheating on their spouses. I wasn't assaulted or harassed or anything. It just was such a bad experience. But, yeah, I'm glad I stuck with it! And you do have to have some fortitude. You really do. You're gonna get beat up, but you've got to stand up and keep going. I think that probably applies to pursuing any difficult-to-attain career. If a lot of people want to do it, it takes a lot of work to do it and keep doing it.