Interview: Ronee Blakley (Pt. 1)
Back in 2013, during that brief but wonderful period when a website called The Dissolve was still alive and well, I was provided with the chance to interview an actress / singer-songwriter / musician by the name of Ronee Blakley. This opportunity came about in conjunction with the addition Robert Altman’s Nashville to the Criterion Collection, so of course I snapped up the offer immediately, at which point I was sent an advance copy of the Blu-ray release of the film.
Now that it’s eight years later and the resulting interview has made the rounds on the internet to much acclaim from my peers as well as from fans of the film as well as its music, I have a confession to make: I’d never seen the film until Criterion sent me that copy, and I only just barely knew who Ronee Blakley was. But that wasn’t going to stop me from taking the assignment and being fully prepared for it when I hopped on the phone for the interview.
Needless to say, I dived headlong into an intense study of Ronee’s work both within the film as well as her work both before and after she found her way into Nashville, and by the time we were on the phone, not only was I able to hold my own in the conversation, but I know for a fact that I surprised the heck out of her by asking about a project called Wilbur and the Baby Factory.
Hey, at least her name isn’t on the poster…
Fortunately, despite my asking her about this film, Ronee and I have been Facebook friends on social media ever since, so when I discovered that she had a new album - Atom Bomb Baby - and was doing press for it, I asked if she could spare some time to talk again, and she was kind enough to agree. The resulting conversation is a blend of two friends checking in on each other and finding out how they’ve been doing, getting an update on new material, and telling stories about this, that and the other. It is absolutely sprawling, but in the best possible way.
Read on, and be prepared to laugh, perhaps get a bit misty, and definitely more than once say, “I didn’t know that!”
First of all, I'm just glad that this is still your number! I knew I still had it from when we last talked, but once I went back in my messages to find it, I realized it'd been eight years since I interviewed you for The Dissolve.
[Surprised laughter.] Is that how long it's been? No way! Really?! Oh, kid, how have you been doing during this time?
I've been hanging tough. My wife works with autistic kids, so her work situation never really changed, aside from having to mask up and use more hand sanitizer, and I work at home. Really, the biggest difference - aside from my daughter having to do school from home - was that I became the designated grocery shopper of the family.
Well, that must've been kind of fun!
Um... Relatively speaking. [Laughs.]
Well, I think everything's been relative. And I don't even know if it's going to go back to normal ever. It's the new normal.
Indeed. I think that's the best we can hope for at the moment. A new normal featuring at least some similarities to the old normal.
I think that’s right. Now, where are you today?
I'm in Chesapeake. Better known as the Norfolk / Virginia Beach area.
Oh, that's very beautiful. It's a wonderful part of the country. Historical as well.
Absolutely. And it helps to have family around, too.
And I don't have that here in Los Angeles. At least not very much. I have a couple of people down in Long Beach, but that's a bit of a drive and... I don't know. It just seems far.
It's my understanding that everywhere is "a bit of a drive" in Los Angeles.
Yes. Even across town! [Laughs.] Although the traffic hasn't completely gone back to what it was before.
That's definitely good for ya'll, I'm sure.
It's fantastic!
I'm sure it is. Well, I'm thrilled that you've got a new album, Atomic Bomb Baby, and I'm ecstatic that Variety was so enamored of your cover of "Hurricane." I mean, to put it on a list of Best Dylan covers that also features people like Joan Baez, the Rolling Stones, and Lucinda Williams… That’s no small feat!
Thank you, Will. I am blown away by it! It really lifted my spirits and gave me a big pat on the back that I needed.
I think we all need a pat on the back right about now, but it was a well-deserved pat, to be sure.
Thank you very much. It was a heartfelt effort, and I cleared it with Bob's people - Bob Dylan's people - and they said, "Well, you don't have to clear it with us to record it." But I did. We were talking about it for awhile, and then I put it together, and then I hired the band for it, which - as I know you know - the drummer, Don Heffington, passed away. But he was a dear guy. It was absolutely terrible. And while some people knew he was ill, I didn't. And I loved him and worked with him since the early 1970s with Hoyt. We were on the road together with Hoyt Axton, Renee Armand, Peggy Sandvig, David Jackson, and Mark Dawson. It was a wonderful band, and he was a good friend for many years. The door knocker I have is a moose, a bronze moose that he gave me for my birthday one year...and I can't believe he's gone. That's the other thing that COVID has done. It has robbed us of the deaths of our friends. No memorials, you know. As if it didn't happen. It's a disappearance. It makes me feel physically ill to think of it.
Yeah, my aunt passed away relatively early in the pandemic.
I'm sorry.
Thank you. Yeah, she was a wonderful, wonderful woman. And they had a small ceremony out of necessity, but my parents are both still living, so they were able to attend as kind of our designated family representatives. But just the fact that someone who was a churchgoing woman for so many years wasn't able to have the chance to fill a church to the rafters with her mourners... It just seemed like the most unfair thing ever.
Absolutely. There's something very wrong about it, that we can't memorialize our friends. It's like we just have to shut our mouth. Well, not like we have to. We have to. We can't go get together and be together. Now we can a bit more, but...people are going to be cautious. Even though we can get together, I think people are going to be cautious. [Pauses.] You know, Hal Willner disappeared.
I did. That one hurt.
And, you know, I saw him at the opening for the Scorsese movie about Dylan and the Rolling Thunder Revue, at the premiere at Tavern on the Green. I saw Hal and we spoke, and he said he wanted to work with me and produce me. And then the next thing was, I wrote to him on his Facebook page and said, "Hey, Hal, what's up?" and a few other things. And the next day I was notified that he'd died! And Allen Garfield, who played my husband in the movie Nashville, he died. And Tim Brown, who played the Charley Pride type character in the film, he died!
And John Prine, of course. But also Adam Schlesinger of Fountains of Wayne. I don't know if you were a fan of theirs or not.
Well, John was a friend of mine.
Oh, absolutely, I knew you and John were friends from way back.
Yeah, I used to always see him at Steve Goodman's house. Steve used to have beach parties and...we didn't actually go to the sand. [Laughs.] But his house was near the beach, so we'd be outside at his house, partying away. Those were great days. With Al Bunetta, who managed John for his entire career. Those were the days. Steve Goodman was just a great songwriter, and they were all good friends.
When I talked to Wes Stace recently, he said that he hadn't talked to John in awhile, but he had fond memories of staying over at John's place, which I can imagine is the sort of thing one wouldn't likely forget.
You know, I sang on Wes's record, too.
I did know that.
You did?
Yeah, when I did a piece on that album, I messaged you and you sent over a few reminiscences about working with him. But I don't blame you for not remembering.
Well, thank you for reminding me! [Laughs.] Wes is such a charming man, so intelligent, and with that British thing he has!
Just having a British accent immediately makes everyone 76% more charming.
Yeah, he's got it all going on. [Laughs.] And he's a wonderful musician and songwriter, too! And at that time, he was produced by Andy Paley, from Boston. And I was on the phone yesterday with Andy's brother Jonathan, a guitar player.
I actually interviewed both brothers when they did a reissue of their Paley Brothers material.
Oh, Will, you know everybody!
Well, I don't know about that. But you can definitely play a "six degrees of separation" game with me and a number of very well respected musicians, if not necessarily hugely commercially successful ones.
What a badge of honor!
I like it. If nothing else, it shows that I've got good taste.
Absolutely! And you've been working for a long time, so of course you're going to know everybody.
I've racked up some credits. More credits than dollars, but I always say that it's the experiences that are invaluable, and that's what matters. [Note: I stopped staying this to my mortgage company.]
Oh, I'm with you on that!
So the new album. It'd been awhile since your last one, and my presumption was that at least part of the reason for this release had to do with suddenly having the same free schedule that everyone else did, but...was that why?
Well, no, that's not exactly what happened. This album started... [Pauses.] Well, first of all, let me say that I actually have been putting out albums on the downlow. Mostly poetry albums, but I also put out Live at the Mint and Live at the Bitter End, and these all have new songs on them.
And there's also a studio album called River Nile. Did you hear that one? Was it even out yet the last time we spoke?
It definitely wasn't out yet.
Well, that's a good album. It has some good songs on it. And then this one, I just decided to do more of the traditional way of it. I started it at Jackson Browne's studio and did three or four songs there. Those were mixed, so I took some time doing that. And then due to an accident or two, there was a little break in there. And then I went back in, because I wanted to do "Hurricane." I wanted to honor Bob Dylan. And I wanted to address the civil rights matters that were still unresolved after all these years, which is just astonishing. It was before George Floyd, although I do have a song on the album that's to do with George Floyd called "Mama." But that hadn't happened yet when I had recorded the previous songs.
So the album was a few years in the making, I guess you could say, because I also added that long song poem, the "Atom Bomb Baby" poem, with the Greek chorus backing. That was for my daughter, and she encouraged me to finish the album. You know, during these years, my parents died, and it just knocked me for a loop. I had trouble finding my ambition or whatever you call it. My drive. Especially after my father died, because Mother dying, that still left Dad. But when Dad died, that left no one. So it was very tough. But anyway, I managed to pull it all together. There's a song on there dedicated to Dad: "Redux Little Joe."
Dad had two favorite songs, and that was one of them, which he played until it wore out, because it came on the back of a Sears catalog when he was a boy. It was on cardboard, and he would spin that cardboard until it turned to dust on his little record player. And he identified with Little Joe, too, I think, the little cowboy. Because his mother died and his father was an alcoholic, and he had to maintain on his own a great deal. And he was a hired hand when he was 12, Dad was. So Little Joe was a cowpoke who went into a cattle ranching outfit, and they took him in and trained him, and he became valuable and beloved...and then, of course, his horse fell down in a hole during a cattle stampede, and he died.
So I added a chorus. [Singing.] "Little Joe, Little Joe..." And I put that after the verses, and I added Rusty Anderson and Tony Gilkyson, and they gave it a lot of style and a beautiful depth and brilliance from both of them that turned it on into another aspect of the song, so it wasn't just a copy of Montana Slim's hit from the '30s, or anyone else's version from the 1880s. It was turned into a modern song. And that was dedicated to Dad. So the album is in some ways dedicated to him and to my daughter, who encouraged me to finish it and inspired me to write that long poem.
It was nice seeing Rusty Anderson's name in the credits. I know most people know him for his work with Paul McCartney, as do I, but I'm also a fan of his album Undressing Underwater.
Oh, that's wonderful! I'm going to tell him! Have you ever interviewed him?
I never have.
Would you like to?
Uh...if he's up for it, I'd love to, sure!
I'll let him know! I'll write to him today and tell him. Yeah, he's a dear old friend. You know, I discovered him when he was 19.
I read that very recently, but I hadn't known it until then. That's amazing!
Yes, I went to the Whiskey (a Go Go) and I heard him playing with his band, Eulogy, and I went backstage and asked him to come out to Shangri-La Studios the next day with me to shoot film for a film I was doing with Wim Wenders and to record. And they showed up, and they became my band for awhile, and Rusty's in the movie. They're all in the movie! Which is called I Played It for You, my feature film that I made back then.
And that introduced him to Rob Fabroni, because I was working with Rob at Shangri-La Studios at Malibu. And Penelope Tree was there, and Bonnie Raitt was there... People were running around. You know how it was.
So Rusty is in the film, and he was 19. And then he credited me on his album! He thanked me for discovering him. In print, on his album, on the back cover. So Rusty went on to become a huge star, and because my lawyer was John Eastman, who was Paul McCartney's lawyer, John saw Rusty and was in that crowd, and then Rusty hooked up with Paul, and he's been with Sir Paul now for more than 10 years! One day Rusty called me and said, "Hi, Ronee, I'm in St. Petersburg!" I said, "What are you doing in Florida?" And he said, "No, Russia!" [Laughs.] So Rusty's been going around all these years now with Sir Paul, he's done very well. It's almost as if he reinvented Paul. He gave Paul that new sound that Paul needed.
Oh, yeah, that band is tight.
I mean, what better band is there in the world than that band?
Absolutely. His drummer, Abe Laboriel, Jr., makes me smile every time I see him perform with Paul, because not only does he kick ass, but you can tell that he's just loving every minute of it.
And Brian [Ray] is great, also! Once I said to Rusty, "Rusty, how come you never make a mistake?" And he said, "That's what Paul says!" [Laughs.] He's on a level of his own, Rusty. So it was very sweet of him to come and play on my session.
And Dave Alvin is on there, too, of course, who's fantastic.
Yes! Now, Rusty was on the sessions that were at Jackson's studio, as was Tony Gilkyson, and Dave was on...the penultimate thing I recorded, I guess. Let me think here... Anyway, the last batch before George Floyd died. Dave came in to play for me on "Hurricane." He had said to me that he would like to record with me, and I thought that he would be beautifully perfect for the song, and I think I was. And Don came in, as I mentioned, and Chad Watson on bass. Mr. Reliable, Mr. Bass Man, Mr. Wonderful Guy Chad Watson. [Laughs.] So that was an incredible band, and I will never forget that day, recording with those guys.
You know, when I was looking back at your catalog... We talked about this a little bit in our previous interview, but I'm still fascinated by your tie to the First Moog Quartet.
Oh! And it's pronounced "Moe-g."
And I knew that, so excuse me. I don't have to say it very often, but I see it all the time, so I still want to pronounce it...well, wrong.
I know people don't like to be corrected, but on the other hand… You might as well!
On the whole, I'd rather be educated, so that I don't make the same mistake again, even though I clearly continue to make this one.
The thing is, people will correct you. "No, it's not Moe-g. You mean Moo-g?" [Laughs.] And now you can say, "No, it's Moe-g. Ronee Blakley told me so, and she worked with Robert Moog!"
And if anyone would know...
Yeah! But when I worked with Gershon Kingsley at his studio in New York City, I was the receptionist who then got up and sang whenever asked. [Laughs.] So I was both receptionist and singer! And we played Carnegie Hall, and I had to extemporize in front of the nearly sold-out crowd...and that's when I had $5,000 for David Crosby in my underwear to take to his boat in the Bahamas. And I was wearing a green satin sheath, so the money stuck out, because it was in fifties. So I couldn't turn sideways on the stage. But I soloed in that show, and Gershon had one of four Moogs in existence at that time.
[Based on this article, it would seem that the other three belonged to Wendy Carlos, Buck Owens, and Micky Dolenz...and if that doesn't demonstrate the musical diversity of the Moog's fanbase, I don't know what will.]
But Robert Moog - Bob - his shop where he was making his Moogs was upstate, and he had an assistant named Tony, and either Tony or Bob would come down in person when there was a glitch in the equipment or the machinery or the instrumentation, and they'd personally tweak it or fix it themselves. And there was a whole room full of cords that were necessary. Like, cords that operators used to plug in. You know, when you see on old movies, they're plugging in the calls and going, "Hello, sir, you have a call from Western Union!" [Laughs.] The room was filled with those cords...and it was a big room! And when the sequencer was developed, Gershon got the first one of those, and then there were more cords everywhere! So there were cords and cords and cords...and now when you see a Moog or a small keyboard synthesizer, everything is inside the thing!
When we played Carnegie Hall, I believe there were six Moogs in that show, and it was the first time electronic music was performed in Carnegie Hall. But I also recorded with Gershon. I forget to mention that sometimes.
Well, in this case, that's what spurred the question: I'd read about the First Moog Quartet.
That's right. And thank you for getting the pronunciation right! [Laughs.] You know... Gee, I did a lot of electronic music at that time. It was also called "new music." The composers in Manhattan - or from elsewhere - who were brought into Carnegie Hall, or to Little Carnegie, to do their new works, I would be hired or called in to be the singer to interpret the work. So that was a very different style of music in my life. So electronic music or new music, that was kind of the beginning of it, really. But after that Carnegie Hall show I mentioned...
Oh, good, because I was obviously going to circle back to that.
[Laughs.] Yes, right after that, I went down to Nassau, where David Crosby's boat was either in drydock or was being worked on. The engine had broken. And then we sailed from there to Los Angeles. So the next 10 weeks of my life was sailing on David Crosby's 62-foot schooner from Nassau to the Panama Canal, through the islands and up the west coast of Mexico to Los Angeles.
And the $5,000 was just because he desperately needed the funds, right?
He needed it. Oh, yes, he did. And I had not met him yet! But I was the one who was going on the trip who wasn't down there. I was on my way. So they had me go by the bank and pick up the $5,000 in fifties. Not hundreds, because that was too big to be usable down there. So that's what I did! And then I kept the ship's log on the boat. So I have the log of that trip.
Before we move on, I...don't think I have a satisfactory explanation for why you kept the $5,000 in fifties in your underwear.
Well, it was David's $5,000. I didn't want to lose it! I mean, it's one thing if you lose your own $5,000, but what if I lost someone else's?And where was I going to put it? I thought, "I'll hide it in the piano!" But then I thought, "No, someone will come and move the piano." And then I was going to buy a money belt, but I couldn't find a money belt that was big enough! I literally had nowhere else to put it.
Well, it was a place of honor, I'm sure.
It worked. [Laughs.]
Now, one aspect of that story that I think I have heard is that that's the trip that led you into your friendship with Joni Mitchell, right?
Yes! That's where I met her. She flew into Kingston, Jamaica. We met up with her in Kingston. We got hauled into Kingston, because one of the boys who was not really a sailor was at the wheel during the night, and we did run aground on a small sandbar, I guess, or whatever. Nothing bad. Nothing broke. But they came and hauled us into the Kingston harbor, which is a very complex harbor to navigate. And then, once we were hauled in, they thought we were criminals! [Laughs.] Because of the way we looked, I guess because of how long we'd been on the boat.
But then they confiscated our passports and ordered us into the mayor's office, and while we were there, they tore the boat apart. Literally. They removed the inside paneling. But nothing was found. And while we were at the mayor's office, cooling our heels in the hall, he invited David in...and his favorite song was "Mr. Tambourine Man," the hit by the Byrds, so he asked David to sing it. So David sat there and sang it for him...and we were released! [Laughs.] We got our passports back and went back to the boat, where we found it all torn apart. But we were free to go! But we hung around Kingston for a few days and went sightseeing, fixed whatever was necessary, if anything, and got the book put back together, and left for Panama!
That...is what I would describe as a fairly memorable trip.
Fairly. [Laughs.] Although you'd be surprised that, after a certain bit of time, you no longer remember every day of the trip. But I remember that day!
Thus endeth Pt. 1 of my conversation with Ronee Blakley, but before we go, I wanted to share a couple of covers of Ronee’s songs.
Keep an eye out for Pt. 2 soon…and you might as well plan on a Pt. 3 as well, because it was quite a conversation!
Jonathan Richman, “Rodeo Wind”
Hoyt Axton, “Bluebird
Spanky & Our Gang, “Dues”