Pilot Error: "H.U.D." (2000) - Interviews with David Zucker and Meredith Salenger
It all started in November 1999, per an article in Variety…
In fact, they did not call it A Bowtie for Millie, although if they had, then perhaps it would’ve been picked up. Instead, they called it H.U.D. and it failed to go to series, which is unfortunate. Then again, it’s only because of NBC’s poor decision to take a pass on H.U.D. that we’re here talking about it today, so I’m hard pressed to complain but so much. Besides, had it been picked up and become a success, then who’s to say that Steve Carell would’ve been free to star in The Office a few years later?
DAVID ZUCKER (Director / Co-Writer)
I'm going into this piece relatively blind, having seen no more than a 52-second clip of the pilot.
David Zucker: I have the thing somewhere. I haven't had a chance to look for it, but I know I have the DVD of it. If I can figure out a way to transfer it... Maybe I could play it on my computer and record it on my cell phone. [Laughs.] That's an option, right?
It is indeed an option. Although I'm really surprised that it's not out there somewhere already.
Yeah, I'm glad I have a copy of it. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to get a copy now! You know, if I do just record some scenes on my phone, maybe it’ll make it seem even more mythic and rare. “These are the only available clips…”
So what was the origin of the project? Was it just an idea that you'd had, or did someone suggest the idea to you?
Well, it starts with me in Director Jail, which I periodically get thrown into. This was after BASEketball, which flopped. So I was looking for something to do and, of course, couldn't get hired to do anything. [Laughs.] Skipping ahead, I did get hired by Bob Weinstein and Dimension to do My Boss's Daughter, the Ashton Kutcher movie, but at the time my partner Gil Netter - it was Zucker-Netter Productions, we had an office in Santa Monica - Gil found somebody at NBC who wanted to make me a one-year deal to do a series. So I looked around for an idea, and I thought of H.U.D.
If you don't know the premise, it's that all of the existing agencies like the NSA, the CIA, and the FBI, they'd all gotten too much exposure and publicity and couldn't be secret anymore. So they looked around for an existing but useless government agency, and they decided on the Department of Housing and Urban Development to be the real secret spy agency. We held auditions for the lead guy to be in it, and...we couldn't find anybody! Or couldn't find anybody that I liked, anyway. They put a lot of auditions on video, and Steve Carell was one of the auditions, but I just passed on all these guys. "No... No... No..." And it just shows how video auditions leave a lot to be desired, because if you're in the room with somebody, you can ask them to do it again a certain way. And Steve just made the wrong choices on his video audition...and how could he know they were the wrong choices? How could he know what was in my head?
But I saw that he had been on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, and when I saw him on there, I thought, "This guy is great! He's got the personality to do this!" So I had him in for a callback, and I thought he was great. I just thought, "We've found our guy!" I mean, I didn't exactly say, "This guy's gonna be a big star," but I thought he was terrific and way better than anyone else we'd seen. So then, of course, he had to audition in front of, like, 16 NBC executives. That's how they do it in TV. So he passed that test, and he was our guy. And he was great in the pilot.
But the big thing is, they did three or four other pilots, and they picked all of these other pilots over us, and they all flopped. They all just disappeared. Never heard from again. And meanwhile, even though they passed on us, they all loved the pilot. NBC loved the pilot! But the whole thing was, "Who is Steve Carell?" You could probably look up the other pilots that they did back then. I think one was with David Alan Grier.
Oh, it was probably DAG.
Yeah! And then there was another one...
Was it The Michael Richards Show? Was it that year?
Yes! It was! [Laughs.] They chose those over Steve Carell. But this is the story of my life. I get these guys, I give 'em their first movie, it doesn't necessarily perform at the time, but then later these guys become big stars. Look at Val Kilmer. And I also did the first Ashton Kutcher movie to flop. I'm very proud of that.
And then we cast Meredith, who was a very easy choice, because she was definitely great, and she and Steve worked well together. And I wrote the script with Steve Koren, who's a very funny guy. He was great, and we kind of kept in contact through Molly Shannon through the years, because she's our mutual friend.
In addition to Steve and Meredith, you also had Robert Stack in the mix. Obviously, you had a connection to him already.
Yeah, we had a history. [Laughs.] And I just loved Robert Stack, and he was always game to do anything. You know, we had just done BASEketball, and he was really funny in that, so I just called him up. I wanted to have him be that recurring character.
[Photo courtesy of David Zucker.]
Theodore Bikel was also in the pilot.
Oh, yeah! Theodore Bikel, who... I actually met him years before, at a party. We used to get invited to the Playboy Mansion. Like, twice a year they'd invite us, and Jerry, Jim and I would go and we'd hang out. There was no sex. [Laughs.] But it was just fun to hang out there. And I met Theodore Bikel! And my mom was a big fan of his. So I thought he would be great in that part, so I called him up. And it was nice, because then my mom and dad came out to visit, and we had him out to the house for dinner, and he brought his son. So I saw him socially! I never really hung out with stars or anything, but I wanted to invite him over. You know, it was Theodore Bikel and my mom and dad from Milwaukee! So that was fun. [Hesitates.] He can't still be alive.
No, he died in 2015.
I figured. Well, it was just so nice for me to invite him over so that my mom and dad could have dinner with him. It was great. My son was just, like, a year old, so poor Danielle had to kind of go back and forth between dinner and Charles. [Laughs.] But those were the days before cell phones, for the most part, so no pictures exist. I don't think we had a still photographer on the set of H.U.D.
I'm presuming not, since all I've seen online are the publicity photos, which were clearly not taken during filming. Oh, and in regards to the other elder cast member, that was John McMartin, who has also since passed away.
I don't remember much about him, except that he was a good actor and perfect for the role.
I knew him mostly as someone who appeared on Law & Order several times, so I was not surprised to discover that he had a long history as a theater actor.
Oh, yeah, a theater actor with a resume a mile long. He was good in the pilot. Like I said, everybody loved the pilot. It was very funny and had some great scenes in it, and Carell was fabulous.
One other thing I noticed was that the cinematographer for H.U.D. was Robert M. Stevens, who also worked on Ghostbusters.
Oh, Bobby Stevens! Yeah, I brought him in from the Naked Gun films. And probably his whole crew. Yeah, Stevens did all the Naked Gun movies. Oh, and I didn't mention, but there was one NBC executive in particular who was great. I know his name was Rick. He was always in our corner. In fact, Jerry and I were doing press for something in New York, and he got us a meeting with Bob Hope, who was a fan of Airplane! So we spent an hour with Bob Hope, who told us dirty jokes the whole time. [Laughs.] And it's another one of those moments that makes me remember that there were no cell phones, so there's no picture of it!
You know, I think you told me that Bob Hope story before, but I'd forgotten it.
Yeah, he actually asked to meet us! [Laughs.] Rick said, "You guys want to meet Bob Hope?" We said, "Sure!" He said, "He's in town, and he's a fan of Airplane! and he'd love to meet you guys."
That's amazing. By the way, I was just doing some Googling to find that NBC executive. Was it Rick Ludwin?
Yeah! Rick Ludwin!
Okay, yeah, he was the guy who backed Seinfeld when the chips were down.
Oh, yeah! A really smart guy. And he was backing us. He was all in on H.U.D. And I'm sure he's still around.
Actually, he's not, unfortunately. He passed away.
No! No, really? Jesus, there must've been a plague! I'm surprised I'm still alive!
MEREDITH SALENGER (Agent Mason Noble)
I'm really happy that you're willing to talk about something so completely obscure as this.
Meredith Salenger: I loved this project so much, and I was so devastated that it didn't get picked up, because this was the show Steve Carell did before The Office but not long after he started on The Daily Show, and it was, like, that moment of him being about to become so famous. And he was so great in this show. Did you see it? You must've seen it.
Actually, I've yet to see more than those 52 seconds of that clip I found online.
Oh, my God. Seriously?
Yeah, David Zucker has a copy of the DVD, and if he finds it, he assured me that he has a Millennial who lives with him, and he's hopeful that they can help him digitize it. Then again, he's also threatened to just hold his cell phone up to the screen and record scenes for me that way.
[Laughs.] Well, if he transfers it and you get it, send it to me, too! It really is good. It's so funny, it's so clever... And James Patrick Stuart has the best timing. I actually did two pilots with him that were so good that didn't go. The other pilot I did with him was called Chicks, and it was basically Friends but without the boys. It starred me and my friend Ever Carradine, it was written by Carol Leifer, and we had the entire Seinfeld crew. They had just finished filming Seinfeld and started on Chicks, and it was for...whatever network Seinfeld was on.
NBC.
Right. NBC. But they unfortunately had made a deal with Michael Richards, so Chicks didn't get picked up, because they picked up The Michael Richards Show, which was obviously disappointing. But, yeah, I worked with James Patrick Stuart twice: he played my boyfriend on Chicks, and he played a fellow spy in H.U.D.
I...think The Michael Richards Show actually got picked up in lieu of H.U.D. Although maybe I’ve got that wrong.
No, it was definitely Chicks that didn't get picked up because of The Michael Richards Show. H.U.D., I think, was either a year before or a year after Chicks. I can't remember!
I honestly don’t know. I’m just basing this on what David indicated.
[Upon further investigation, Chicks was indeed done the year before H.U.D., but it was done for Fox, not NBC. The Michael Richards Show, however, was done for NBC, and it was indeed was one of the shows that the network selected instead of H.U.D. Have you got all that? As for what Fox picked up instead of Chicks, the network’s three new sitcoms during the 1999-2000 TV season were Action, Malcolm in the Middle, and Titus. Though it’s mild consolation, at least they were all good!]
David is so funny. He's brilliant.
Absolutely. I've been working with him, his brother Jerry, and Jim Abrahams on a book about their career up through the release of Airplane! It talks about the whole Kentucky Fried Theater / Kentucky Fried Movie saga and all that.
Well, I mean, Airplane! is just such an iconic film, and I think that was the first time that kind of humor... I think they were the first people to do that kind of humor.
Yeah, that's actually why it took them so long to get it made: because no studio really understood what they were trying to do.
They had a definite vision on that, as far as that deadpan humor. Everything about that movie was so incredible, and I think David brought some of that silliness and deadpan-ness to H.U.D. for Steve Carell's role. Of course, now everybody's, like, "It's very Get Smart." And it is. H.U.D. is very similar to Get Smart, but...it's different.
When I posted that picture from the pilot, one person said, "Looking at this, I know this isn't Get Smart, but I also think that Meredith would've made a tremendous 99."
I know! And then a few years after that, they did do Get Smart, and Anne Hathaway took it. And I was, like, "Goddammit!" [Laughs.] She's great, but I would've loved to have played 99.
So what do you remember about the process of getting H.U.D. in the first place? Was it an audition, or did they come to you specifically?
I honestly don't recall. It had to have been an audition, I'm sure. I mean, I'm pretty sure. Although...I'd just done Chicks, which was supposed to have been a huge pilot, and it didn't go, so...maybe it was offered to me? I honestly don't remember at all. But I do remember having seen Steve Carell on The Daily Show, and I loved him on that, but he definitely was not a star yet. But he was just the loveliest human being and so kind and so funny, and it was so fun working with him. It was just such a fun role to play because...I played a spy! [Laughs.] And there's nothing more fun than playing a sexy spy!
At one point, we sneak into.... I think it was a German embassy, and I'm guarding the door while Steve's inside doing some spy thing, and a German ambassador walks by. And then I had to speak to that guy in German. So I had to learn German. Well, I didn't have to learn German, but I had to learn these specific sentences. And to this day, anytime someone tells me they're from Germany, I'm like... [Delivers line from pilot with a very solid German accent.] It's just one of those things that you have to practice so hard to remember when you're filming, and then it just sticks with you for the rest of your life. Some things just stick with you to this day because you had to really get them in your brain.
I don't know which ambassador he played, but I know Theodore Bikel played an ambassador of some sort in the pilot.
Oh, yes! And it was actually during that scene... I don't know who had taught me the German, but during the scene I had said it, and he corrected my pronunciation! I was sitting with him, and he was helping me do it perfectly because he spoke German. He was amazing, and he really helped me! It’s always nice to be so pleasantly surprised at how sweet they are. All of the actors on that show were divine. But Steve Carell in particular is really a tremendous human being.
Robert Stack was also in the pilot, although I don't know if you had any scenes with him.
Yes, he was, and...I think I had scenes with him! [Laughs.] I honestly can't remember! I'd have to see the show again. It's been so long.
I'm really hoping that David can find that DVD.
I feel like I have the pilot somewhere, too! I must have it. But it's probably on VHS. [Laughs.] It's so annoying, because so many of these things I did when I was younger are all on VHS, and to get them copied, the quality's not good and...it's annoying, because there are so many great performances that I love from back then. But transferring them or getting the originals is so difficult.
Somebody on Twitter posted a single page from the script, saying, "You don't even want to know how much I had to pay for this [script]," but it basically sets up the opening of the pilot, which was I guess a True Lies parody.
Yes! I remember that! He's in scuba gear, he comes out of the ocean, strips off the gear to reveal his tuxedo, and he walks toward this gala. And I have a microphone in my dress, but it's, uh, between my boobs.
Of course it is.
And he's, like, screaming into my boobs. As a Zucker show would do. [Laughs.] It's very funny.
I did find a review online where someone had seen the pilot and described it as "the most crazy, politically-incorrect show I've seen in awhile."
Was it? Of course it was! [Laughs.] As I look at that clip you mentioned, with Steve talking about "your amazing ass!" But it's funny. It's all in jest.
And so we come to the end of this installment of Pilot Error…at least for now.
I put in a request to talk to Steve Carell, but I’m sure that his team assigned it to the circular file immediately after they stopped cackling, since I didn’t even receive so much as a “get real” in response. I thought perhaps I might find myself talking to James Patrick Stuart, but after receiving a positive response from his manager, things fell quiet after he forwarded the request to Stuart himself, so either he’s really busy, saw it but forgot to reply, or just can’t be bothered. I prefer to think it’s one of the first two possibilities. The same goes for my request to chat with Steve Koren, who also seemed through his manager to be up for a chat, but when I tried to schedule it, suddenly I got radio silence. Again, people get busy, I realize that, so I remain optimistic-ish on this front, too.
As it happens, though, I really didn’t have room for any more interviews in this particular piece, which means that a Pt. 2 was always going to be likely, so everybody keep their fingers crossed for a sequel.
In the meantime, let’s all keep scouring the ‘net for the H.U.D. pilot…and if you find it before I do, let me know. (You’ll know when I find it, because I’ll post about it!)