Pilot Error: "H.U.D." (2000) - Pt. 2: An Interview with Co-Writer Steve Koren
Remember in my initial Pilot Error piece about H.U.D. when I said that I’d reached out to co-writer Steve Koren about doing an interview and that his manager made it seem like it was going to happen, only for radio silence to ensue when I followed up about scheduling it? And remember how I also said that I understand that people get busy and that I remained optimistic? Well, for once, being optimistic did not come back to bite me in the ass, because this past Monday, only a few days after offering up my initial H.U.D. piece, I got an email to set up the interview with Steve, and we actually did the interview that very day.
Steve’s a great guy, and we actually talked about a few other pilots during the course of the conversation, but I decided I’d save those tidbits for another time and just stay on topic. By the way, just to avoid any disappointment, I’ll tell you up front that, although he seems confident that he has a copy of the H.U.D. pilot, he has yet to produce it, so…maybe this is going to be another instance where my optimism doesn’t come back to bite me in the ass? If not, hey, we had a good run…
I appreciate you being willing to talk about something as completely obscure as this.
Steve Koren: Well, it's certainly not obscure to the person who killed themselves to make it! [Laughs.]
I'm sure not. Nor is it obscure to David or to Meredith, I can assure you.
You know, it's so funny, I ran into David at a friend's kid's bar mitzvah, believe it or not, and...I think I brought it up! I said, "David, everybody's always asking me about H.U.D. Why don't we just re-do it with somebody else? So that the network can then take that star and put them in their next hit series!" [Laughs.] That's how I am. I like to help other people.
As it happens, that's not so far off from what David said. He said he has a history of working with people whose next project is huge, using Val Kilmer in Top Secret! as another example.
That's true!
Well, what do you remember about the origins of H.U.D.?
You know, I think I was just coming off of Seinfeld, and I think David... [Hesitates.] I don't know how they connected us. It's a little strange. I had always wanted to do a new take on Get Smart, and I think David was thinking of the same thing, and I think NBC connected us? For me, it was like a dream. I was, like, "Seriously? David Zucker of the Zucker brothers?!" I'm just a comedy geek, so I'm, like, "I can't believe it!" So we started talking, and I was kind of the writer, and I'd bring drafts to his office, and we'd sort of rewrite. I think that was the idea: I was going to be the showrunner, and he was going to direct the pilot.
But it was just a really fun process. And Gil Netter was his partner at the time, who's becoming a really big producer, and we were always just laughing in the office about all sorts of crazy things. But that was the idea, I think, and I know I had brought up Steve Carell because he was the husband of Nancy Walls, who was on Saturday Night Live when I was there, so Steve used to be by the office occasionally. And I had actually seen Steve live at Second City once, and it was a performance that... I remember I actually talked to Lorne and said, "There's a guy, he's Nancy's husband, and he was unbelievable!" But I cannot remember why he never... [Hesitates.] Or maybe he did audition. But obviously he wasn't on Saturday Night Live!
I think he did audition. In fact, I want to say that maybe I've seen the audition.
Oh, really? Interesting. I didn't know. I just remember that I pushed him when I was there.
[Okay, so as it turns out, Carell did not audition, and he confirmed as much in a tweet a few years ago, but I also discovered why I'd thought that he'd auditioned: because when he hosted SNL for the first time, he said in his opening monologue that he had auditioned for the show, that it was down to him and Will Ferrell, and Will got the spot in the cast instead. But in the same Twitter conversation as the one where he said he never auditioned, he also confirmed that the remark in the opening monologue was just a joke.]
So anyway, when H.U.D. came up, I knew him, and...it's funny, I think I said his name, and David wasn't into it, and then David saw his audition and suddenly was, like, "My God, he's great!" And I was, like, "That's the guy I was talking about!" It was one of those where he discovered it and I discovered it, and we were both, like, "Let's do it!" And I think up to that point Steve had done a couple of co-starring roles in things, but I wonder if this was his first sort of lead role. I don't know.
I think it was, because by that point he was on The Daily Show, but that was the height of his success then.
That's right, that's right. Yeah, so we watched a million people, but we got Steve, and then we got Meredith, and...David had very specific requirements for the female lead. David liked it very, very flat, with nobody playing comedy. Just straight stuff, you know? Which is how Airplane! worked. And...any specific questions? I'm just rambling. [Laughs.]
Well, I was just going to say that David pretty much remembered the situation with Steve the way you did, which is to say that he watched his audition, it didn't grab him, but then he went back and it did.
Yeah, that's exactly right. And like I said, I was thrilled, because I was a fan of his. I remember we looked at a couple of other people, but Steve definitely was the guy. And, you know, from what I hear... [Pauses.] I had done a couple of pilots at that point, because I had a deal with NBC, and I sadly had the habit of writing for college kids, and they'd always love it, but then when I'd go to test, a lot of the older folks didn't love some of the stuff so much. I remember for one of my shows they said, "Well, you know, a lot of the Simpsons fans love it, but we need to have a broader appeal." That kind of stuff. You just want to kill yourself. You're, like, "So that's why we're not getting picked up?" But I remember for this one, people did love it, and I remember they told me... I remember this, and I wish I could remember who told me this, but it's whoever was the head of all of NBC and GE, and he told me that at the test he fell out of his seat laughing. And I was, like, "Wow, okay, great! I'm finally gonna get one of these shows on!"
I think maybe that exec was Bob Wright?
Yeah, that’s him! But the other thing I knew was that it didn't really tonally fit. Very often when you get to the very end and you get your pilot made, you also kind of have to fit on the schedule, you know what I mean? And this show... There was nothing like it. Absolutely nothing. Now, the joke was, just a couple of years later, it would've fit perfectly on the schedule. There was a whole lineup of single-camera comedies. So we kind of always felt like we were a little ahead of our time, sadly. But did David happen to mention why it ultimately didn't get picked up? Because I did a lot of pilots, and sometimes I mix up the stuff, but...I think it was H.U.D. where Michael Richards also had a show where he was a detective. It was supposed to be his big return to NBC.
Yep. My understanding—between David's memory, Meredith's memory, and my doing a lot of Googling—is that both The Michael Richards Show and D.A.G., the David Alan Grier sitcom, got picked up over H.U.D.
Yeah, although I do remember being told specifically... I mean, obviously, Michael was the bigger deal at the moment, and he was playing a detective, and they didn't want to bump that, and Steve was an unknown, so... [Trails off.] But I remember we were very upset, because we were, like, "But our scores are huge! The audience seems to like it!" It was, like, "What else do you have to do? We did our job: everybody laughed." And it was making a lot of social commentary, and...I assume you've seen it, right?
Well, actually... [Starts to laugh.] See, here's the thing: David's sure he has a copy, but he can't find it; Meredith thinks that maybe she has a copy on VHS, but she doesn't have any idea where it is; and after scouring the internet, the extent of what I can find is literally a 52-second clip.
Oh, I believe I have it. I can show it to you, if you want.
That'd be great, if you can.
I can't believe David lost it! But I'm pretty sure I have it on some format.
Well, he's optimistic that he has it, he just can't lay his hands on it. But he assured me, "If I can find it, I have a Millennial who lives with me, so I can get it transferred."
Okay, well, let me check. I'm almost positive that I have it. But the thing about it... It has social commentary, it's just really silly and funny, and...I have a guy who works with me who said, "Boy, it almost seems more timely now!" Because it's a big commentary about the Department of Housing and Urban Development and how it's really not doing anything. The idea was that nobody's really helping the poor in this country, that it's just a front for a secret agency. And that was our big explanation as to why things never improve.
Now, I will say that, thanks to a kind reader on Twitter, I was able to see a page of the script. It was the opening, I believe, with a moment that plays like a True Lies parody: Carell's character comes out of the ocean wearing a scuba outfit, strips to a tuxedo underneath, and enters an event featuring a banner that reads "Welcome Drug Cartel / Scuba Club."
Yes, that's exactly right. [Laughs.] Well, I know I have the script, and I'm almost positive I have the show. I don't know what form it's in, whether it's a VHS or a 3/4" or whether I got it transferred to DVD at some point. They also showed it at a couple of festivals, I think. Part of me would still love to do it! Or re-do it.
I don't know if David knows this, but I almost did re-do it! At the height of NBC's success with... It was, like, The Office, Parks & Recreation, and everything. So at that point, Steve Carell had some power, and I remember I got a phone call that he himself wanted to bring H.U.D. back because he had loved it. And he was also about to do Get Smart. That's how long ago it was. And I had written a very early draft of Get Smart for Jim Carrey to do, actually. There's, like, a draft of Get Smart for every comedy star out there. [Laughs.] But I actually didn't work on Steve's version.
Anyway, Steve said, "Hey, why don't you come in? I think NBC would be interested in reviving it." Because they owned it, you know? And Steve was thinking of producing it. And I remember I went in for a meeting, and then it just didn't happen. I think people thought it was a conflict of interest because H.U.D. was similar to Get Smart, so we didn't get that chance to revive it, unfortunately. I still think there's a show there, though. It's kind of timeless, the script.
Do you remember anything about the experience of working with Robert Stack?
Oh, yeah. Well, just that he was great. Very professional. Totally got it. He was obviously there for David. [Laughs.] They had done a lot of things together, and David had made him super funny, so he was just excited to do it again. I also remember... Oh, what's the name of the actor who played the ambassador? He won an Academy Award...
Theodore Bikel.
Yeah, Theodore Bikel! Oh, he was fantastic! That was a very big surprise to me. Just so funny and nice. Yeah, it was a shame when he died, what, just a couple of years ago? But it was great to work with him.
Meredith said that when she found out they were going to be doing a version of Get Smart with Steve and that Anne Hathaway had the Agent 99 role, she just went, "Goddammit!"
Yeah, Meredith was great! She was really good in that role, which was obviously the 99 equivalent. But she would've been great as 99, honestly. You know, one of the things I remember the most...
As you probably know, or maybe you've even done it yourself, when you have to pitch a show, you work on a pitch. It's usually three to five pages, and you memorize it - or at least I memorize it! - and then beginning, middle, and end, you tell the pilot story, about the characters, and everything. And I usually had done them myself, but I think this was the first time I had ever partnered up with someone, and obviously it was David Zucker, who's very famous. So when I walked in the room, I had thoroughly prepared, like I do everything, and I'd memorized this huge pitch.
But we just started talking, and they started asking David lots of questions about all of the movies he's done, and he started to talk about Police Squad! and how he wanted some similar things in our show. And they were laughing and laughing, and I'm just, like, throwing in a couple of things here and there. And then just when I think I'm about to start my pitch, David said something to the effect of, "So, anyway, that's kind of what we want to do," and they were, like, "Great!" And I was, like, "Wait, what?" [Laughs.] And I remember thinking, "I didn't even get to do my pitch, and we've already sold the show! Oh, my God, this is incredible!"
But that's what happened: David just kind of said, "Well, we're going to do something like this, this, and this," and he never really got into the nitty-gritty details that I usually have to do. That's what I always remember about that experience.
David said that [NBC executive] Rick Ludwin was very much behind the pilot.
Oh, yeah, Rick was amazing. I mean, I'd known Rick for many years, with Saturday Night Live and I was on [Late Night with David] Letterman a little bit, and...he loved it. Yeah, he was really behind it. Big supporter. That one was... I do remember David saying at the end of that whole process, "Wow, I never got exactly what I wanted on film and then didn't get the show." I always remember that. He said, "We did exactly what we wanted to do!" He just couldn't believe that we couldn't at least get the pilot on the air and let people see it. We were very, very excited.
Like I said, it felt slightly ahead of its time, we thought we were doing something new and that younger folks would like, but...anyway. [Laughs.] Again, I'd love to revive it. I'm happy to, if anybody wants to do it!