Pilot Error: THE DAVE CHAPPELLE PROJECT (1998)
When I interviewed Lee Shallat Chemel recently, I asked her about directing The Dave Chappelle Project, a FOX pilot which—as you may have guessed—never went to series, and in bringing it up, I added that I’d talked to Peter Tolan about it.
When she asked me what he’d said about it, however, I completely drew a blank.
I said, "You know, I don’t remember. It’s the darndest thing. I guess he must not have said a whole lot!”
Well, as it turns out, the reason I didn't remember what he said is because—looking back—I did not ask him about The Dave Chappelle Project.
I think I was thinking about the fact that Chappelle did come up in a conversation with Peter, but not the one I did for this newsletter, and the topic was a different Chappelle project.
You see, Peter actually knew Chappelle prior to working on that FOX pilot, having been part of Dave’s first—and very terrible—series, an ABC sitcom called Buddies.
“It’s really bad,” Tolan told me in 2014 when I interviewed him for the A.V. Club. “It’s really bad. Buddies was based on the idea that—now, wait for it: This is 1996, okay?—it’s based on the wild idea that a black guy and a white guy can be friends. That’s it. That’s all I got. A black guy and a white guy can be friends! Which, believe me, even in 1996 was sort of an outdated idea. So it had sort of a faulty premise, but I did work on it. I think, as I put it, my comic sensibility did not necessarily mesh with what was being done on the show, and I quit. But not before—as I look through my IMDB listing—my name was associated with five episodes. It was, uh, pretty bad. I mean, Dave and I worked together several times trying to do a better pilot for him. Ultimately, his talents were best served by the Comedy Central show. But Buddies was a show that I have heard him refer to in his act as ‘a major embarrassment.’”
That’s the sum total of our Chappelle talk.
But don’t worry: once I told Peter that Lee and I had talked about The Dave Chappelle Project, he kindly agreed to hop on the phone and talk about it, too.
First, though, let’s hear what Lee had to say…
Lee Shallat Chemel: [The Dave Chappelle Project] was a big deal to me. This was a huge deal. I love Dave, and what's going on with him now... I feel confused and stuff by. But I worked with him a couple of times, and I absolutely adore him. And this pilot was so fricking hilarious. I mean, Peter Tolan, first of all, is one of the great funny writers of all time, who I met during Murphy Brown, because he was a Murphy Brown writer. And this was for Fox, and to me it was sort of like a black Seinfeld. It was Hill Harper and Wayne Wilderson and Dave, of course, and then the gal... I can't remember her name.
Tracy Vilar?
Yes! Yes, that's her. And then Dave got David DeLuise. And it was a hilarious set-up. This is when Dave was real skinny. [Laughs.] But he's a comic, and he's coming into New York from D.C. because he wants to be at the Apollo. So it's similar to his life. And his buddy is Hill Harper, and he's trying to find a place to live. So that's how the gang gets together: he goes Tracy's house first, and he's really skinny, but she says, "Hey, Dave, you put on a lot of weight, huh?" [Laughs.]
Anyway, then he said, "Well, what about Leroy?" And they were, like, "Don't go to Leroy's house." "Why not?" "Just don't go there. He just got out of Riker's, there are a whole bunch of people living at his place… You're not gonna live there." "Well, I haven't got anyplace to live!" So we go to the apartment, and there's police tape across the hall, and the door opens, smoke rolls out, and we did this pan shot where he's walking through a lot of tough-looking African-American guys...and then he goes, "Leroy?" And you hear, "Dave? Dave Chappelle?!" And it's David DeLuise, this dirty white guy. That's Leroy. [Laughs.] That's just Peter Tolan at his best. "Dave, hi!"
Anyway, finally, he can't stay anywhere—and this is why I'm bringing up this whole story—so he finally has to go to Hill Harper's house, but his dad is a preacher. He says, "Dave, you can't talk about grass, you've got to do grace at dinner," all this sort of stuff. And Dave's trying to be straight up so he can stay at Hill Harper's parents' house...and then he does grace like, "Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today..." Obviously, he doesn't know how to say grace. But then there's a moment where the father goes into the kitchen with the mother, and the line—as written—is, "I want that goddamned nigger out of my house."
Wow.
[Nods.] Heavy duty. And it was hilarious because it was the preacher saying it, and it was off-camera. And it was totally appropriate for the humor of the pilot. But Fox wouldn't do it. And Dave said, "It's perfect! Because we're owning the word ourselves!" And he was right, I believe. But Fox didn't like it at all, so Standards and Practices came in, and we had a big meeting after the run-through, and...it was a very interesting moment, Will, because there was Peter Tolan, me, Dave Chappelle, Peter Roth from Fox, and the Standards and Practices guy, who was a black guy in his fifties.
So it was a guy who came through the civil rights movement who said, "There's no way you're gonna do this. I worked too hard to get where I am. We're not gonna throw that word out. It's too ugly. I've lived with it too long." It was very personal stuff. And Dave said, "That's what I'm saying! I want to take back that word! I want to own that word!" It was quite an amazing meeting...and they ultimately didn't succeed in getting that word in there, but it was really interesting for us, three white people watching these two guys of two different generations talking about that word. It was really powerful.
There's another story about this pilot, and I think this is when Dave and I first met, because he went, "I like you." [Laughs.] There's a scene where he and Hill Harper are going up in an elevator, so it's where you get a lot of exposition. And I thought, "Well, wouldn't it be funny if Dave and Hill are just in a little elevator of an apartment building, and in front of them is this little white woman with groceries who's petrified of those guys behind her, but behind them is a Latino gangbanger who's, like, gigantic...and they're afraid of him! So we played this thing where, underneath all this exposition, Dave and Hill are worried about the gangbanger behind them, and the old woman is worried about the black guys behind her. Will, I have to tell you, the audience laughed so hard that we couldn't do anything with it, so we had to reshoot it. And it was never the same. I mean, it was really fun.
I know that when it comes to pilots, you can't always tell why they don't get picked up, but with that one, do you think they were concerned about potential controversy?
Well, there's a good answer for this one, and it has a lot to do with that...and it has a lot to do with their fear of Dave, I think, too. But the word that came out... It would've been picked up in a second, but it couldn't be, because Dave would never allow this: they said, "Too many black characters."
I...can't even.
Yep. "Too many black characters." And I was in a rage. I said, "This is exactly what you wanted! This is like Seinfeld!" I mean, it was that funny. And it had a white character in it. Initially it had two white characters in it! But...too many black people. And I thought, "Well, you've just told Dave to go away, because Dave would never stand for that." And he didn't. He said, "No fucking way. Goodbye." And it was a hilarious pilot. That just tells you so much.
That's insane.
And Dave's rage has always been under there anyway, but that was... [Shakes her head.] And I was so sad! But then I got to meet with Dave later when he was going to do this movie about slaves...and now, of course, you have Jordan Peele doing this fantastic stuff, but nobody could handle that then. And Dave wanted me to direct the movie, and I went, "Oh! Yay!" But then they went, "No, it's too scary." They didn't want to do it. So they said, "No."
And then he did an episode of Wanda at Large. I asked him to do a guest-star on that, and he did, which was very kind of him. He made me laugh hard. And then it was later after that when all that came down with him walking away from everything.
But I love Dave, and he always felt guilty about success and money in some way, but now I hope he's well. He was going through a lot of stuff. [Long pause.] I think there's a lot of complication in that guy. Funny as all get-out, though.
Now we come to Mr. Tolan’s recollections. Since I’d already talked to Lee about the pilot, I sent him what she’d said about the experience, since I thought it might serve to spark a few memory cells, and I acknowledged that I thought I’d talked to him about The Dave Chappelle Project but, in fact, had only talked to him about Buddies.
Peter Tolan: You know, I bailed on Buddies fairly early in the process. I saw that... I didn't think there was anything there for me, let alone a mass audience. So I got out pretty fast. And then I did a pilot with Dave, and then I did [The Dave Chappelle Project]. So there were actually two pilots that I did with Dave.
Frankly, I don't remember much about the first one. But then we did this other one, and...I did read what you sent as far as what Lee said. Of course, I have a terrible memory, but some of the stuff she's absolutely right on, and some of the stuff she may be right on and I just don't remember. I didn't remember the name "Leroy." but I certainly did remember David DeLuise playing the character. But as much as Lee said, "That's so Peter," I keep thinking, "What would I have done the second week?" [Laughs.] Because once you play that beat, I have no idea. Believe me, I didn't think it was the most clever thing in the world, so...that would've been something!
So the things that I do remember that I can clarify about what Lee said... We did the pilot, and Dave and I, we were very much - Dave more than I, of course - hooked into whatever the race argument was at that time...which, you know, is an ongoing fucking thing. And so we wanted to say the N-word. And it was fascinating, first of all. The entire process of that decision was fascinating. Not just in terms of the battle we had with Standards and Practices from Fox—which, frankly, I'd forgotten—but it was much different, because Dave and I and Hill Harper, who was also in the scene, were very much, "This is great, this is going to be so funny, this is meaningful, this is going to do something." We were on that side.
By the way, the other characters at the table were Hill's [character's] aunt and uncle, not his mother and father, but pretty much what Lee said was correct: they sit down, and Dave has to say grace and sort of fudges his way through it, and it's sort of a disaster. And the key thing is that the uncle, at the head of the table, says nothing the entire time. He doesn't say one word. And then finally, at some point, he just clears his throat and looks at his wife and gets up from the table and goes offstage, and she goes with him. And Dave just goes, "Oh, my God: they hate me." And Hill's, like, "No, no, no, man, it's going really well! They like you! I can tell!" And then you hear the uncle say - and this is the line - "I want that peanut-headed N-word out of my house." Okay? So this comes right after, "They like you!" "I want that peanut-headed..." [Laughs.] I don't know where Dave came up with that. "...peanut-headed N-word out of my house!"
Well, we just thought this was going to be it. You know, this was going to really define the series right away, in the pilot. And it was so interesting... [Hesitates.] A couple of things. One was that I then talked to the actors playing the aunt and uncle, and they had a totally different experience, where they were saying, "Look, maybe—maybe—I understand the idea of poking a hole in that word or reclaiming it or whatever, but I think the concern comes when you're doing it for a white audience. You know, you can't dictate who's going to watch this, so it's not like you're doing this with just a black audience." So it was really interesting that they said that, and believe me, I took that under consideration. But Dave really wanted to do this.
So now it's time to shoot it. And, of course, Dave and I and Hill even, we're all like [Cackling.] "This is gonna kill!" And we were then treated to the strangest reaction, because the audience was a mix of people, obviously. It wasn't a predominantly black audience. I mean, if there was some split, it may have been more black than white, but nevertheless, there were a mix of races in the audience. So the line was said, and I've never heard a thing like this, never heard an audience do this before, but the laugh of shock—or just plain laugh of surprise of hearing this—started...and immediately got swallowed. It's like, as one, the entire audience stopped laughing. They started, and it was almost like the brakes went on. Because what happened is, the black audience starts to laugh...and immediately looked around to see if the whites were laughing. And the white people started to laugh...and then looked at the blacks and were, like, "Oh, are we supposed to laugh?" And everybody stopped. So it was not the reaction we were expecting. Maybe we should've, if we'd been smarter about it.
But that really wasn't the sticking point. I mean, look, this is what happened...and Lee doesn't know this part of the story.
We did the pilot, I'm living in Pasadena, and...I don't remember when the upfronts were, but I believe I was told, "Yeah, you're a shoo-in. The show is happening, so you will be going to New York." So I'm really expecting... Maybe the plans have already been made, but I think this is, like, the day before I was supposed to go to New York, and I'm home, and I get a phone call—I remember taking it in my kitchen—and it was a Fox executive.
I'm going to name him, because I frankly don't even know that this person is still in the business, and this is just somebody passing along news. I don't know that they're ultimately responsible for it. But it was this guy named Rob Dwek, and he called me up and said, "Yeah, man! Really good. Pilot's in great shape. Really a lot of talk. It's great... Just might need some help." And I said, "Okay, well, what kind of help?" And he said, "We just need your help in..." [Clears throat.] "...broadening the appeal of the show."
Now, I'm not a fucking complete dope, so when this guy says to me, "Broaden the appeal," I know exactly what he's saying. He's saying, "The show's too black. There are too many black people in it." The joke is, there's one white guy, with the blackest name in the group. Maybe he wants to be black. I don't remember. But that was the idea: a totally black cast with this one standout, sort of joke white character. And he says, "Look, we just really need your help to broaden the appeal, you know?"
Now, by this time, I was looking at a pickup of 13 episodes. That's what I had been told, and I was going to New York. And I am able to comprehend what was being said to me, but I made him say it to me. I made him say what he really meant. I just kept saying, "Well, yeah, I just don't quite follow what you mean. 'Broaden the appeal'? I think it's quite appealing!" I just completely played like a dope. And he finally said, "Well, we just think we need more white characters in the show." And my stomach was just immediately in knots.
I said, "Well, I don't think that's... I think that's, um, kind of ugly, frankly. And I can't imagine calling Dave up and passing along that news. I just can't imagine it!" And he said, "Well, you know, you're going to have to help us here, because otherwise I... I don't think we can pick up the show...or we'll pick it up for, like, a midseason order of six." It wasn't 13 anymore. It was now a midseason order of six. I said, "Well, listen, I'm gonna talk to Dave about this, but..." [Starts to laugh.] "...I wouldn't expect a positive response. You're not gonna get a positive response from me, so I'm really sure you're not gonna get one from Dave!"
So we don't get picked up. And the upfronts happen, and nothing is said about the show. Now it's after all of that, and we're going to have a meeting .It was on the Fox lot, and there was an executive who I quite liked. I'm not going to say his name because, again, I feel like this is coming from someplace higher than these people. You know, this is probably a precursor to Fox being the home of Fox News, where racism has become a way of life. It's the early days of that taking hold. Now, Dave... I just want to point out that Dave has to fly from wherever he was living at the time - it was either Ohio or New York, I can't remember - so he had to get on a plane and fly west for this meeting. Disney was producing, so the Disney execs went, as did Dave and I, and...it never got hot, but it did get confrontation. I mean, I actually do remember saying to this executive, "You're telling me that Dave Chappelle can't get on Fox unless Whitey gets him in the door. Is that what you're saying?" I mean, I actually said that. And they're, like, "No, no, no! No! No!" [Laughs.] Of course, that's exactly what they were saying, you know?
So this meeting went on for awhile. It wasn't tremendously long, but I'm going to say it was at least half an hour. Dave was very articulate in terms of saying, "This is a really terrible thing that you're asking us to do." I don't think Dave couched it personally. He may have. He may have said, "This is a rotten thing you're doing to me as a black man." But it was a meeting that, when you left, you wanted to take a shower. We really just felt dirty. In fact, I still remember that one of the Disney execs said as we were sort of heading out of the building, "Well, I've been in the business awhile...and that was the worst meeting I've ever been in in my career."
So we said "no." I think they offered us six episodes. I think it may have been based on this idea that we were going to make some changes. Maybe it wasn't even that. I tend to think the change would've had to have been made. But in any case, it went from this guaranteed 13 on the air to not that. And given how the meeting went and whatever else, we just passed. We said, "Look, obviously there's a problem here, we don't wish to be involved in that, so...thank you for your kind offer of fewer episodes than we were going to do before, but...we pass." And I said to Disney and to my agent, "You need to call Fox and say to them that they cannot spin this. I don't want to see any negative press about that pilot. They can't say, 'Well, we didn't feel it was... The potential wasn't... It didn't work out the way...' They can't say any of that. They can say 'creative differences.' I'll give them that. But if they say anything else, I will respond."
Sure enough, a day or two later, in the fucking trades, it said, "Oh, they felt the pilot was not up to..." or whatever, and I called Dave, and I said, "Well, we're on!" [Laughs.] And we called...I think it was Variety.
It was Variety. I found the story.
Yeah! And on the front page of Variety the next day, in a box... "Fox Plays the Race Card." And by the way, I didn't tell Disney I was doing this. So that article was sort of a surprise to them.
I'm sure they were just thrilled.
Well, they were in the meeting, they understood where I was coming from, the horrific-ness of it all, so...they got it. I mean, they did say, "I don't think you should be expecting to working at Fox anytime in the near future." [Laughs.] And they also said, "Don't say anything else." And I said, "Well, you know, I think we've said it. I think we said it, and we got a fairly public hearing here, if we're on the front page of Variety." So that was it. That was the story of what actually happened. It really had nothing to do with using the N-word. It had everything to do with this other thing: getting more white people on screen. It was sickening. It was absolutely sickening. And to make Dave fly across the country and have to go to that meeting... I mean, the disrespect is staggering, you know?
The one thing you didn't mention, though, was how he reacted when you first had to tell him about it.
Well, you know, Dave I could describe for the most part as being somewhat... [Hesitates.] His personal style is somewhat languid. [Laughs.] I'm sure he's gotten angry. But I don't remember it. It's more like [Deadpan.] "Yeah, man, this is fucked." You know, a very even tone, almost like he's just woken up. "Yeah, dude, that's fucked up." And I'm not saying he was baked all the time or if his delivery was based on that./ But he certainly was just able to look at the situation and not respond in a personal way but sort of go to 10,000 feet and look down at it and say, "This is fucked," and not get, like, hugely angry or offended or whatever. I mean, he was.
But the only people who behaved poorly in here were Fox. He was a perfect professional partner and performer. It was one of those things where Dave back then, I think, he was to some degree... I mean, I don't know how much he would admit it, but he probably would, that he lived somewhat in the shadow of Chris Rock, who had sort of hit big as the young black standup. And I think that may have weighed on Dave. But, really, the thing was, everybody recognized that he was this fantastic talent. But sometimes you go, "Well, what's the thing? How do you take advantage of that talent?" And it wasn't going to be in a sitcom, I don't think. It wasn't until he did Chappelle's Show that it was sort of this brilliant match of a performer and a structure.
Would you indeed say - as Lee implied - that it was Seinfeld-esque?
Eh. I mean, probably? It's been so long. And because there were two of them, I'd probably get things confused. Lee was talking about specifics about that show, and I was, like, "I don't remember that." [Laughs.] I have no real memory of it. Will, it's been, like, thirtysomething years I've been in the business. I can't remember anything! I really can't. I wish I was kidding. I don't remember anything. I'm glad you talked to Lee first, that's all I can say, because this would've been a different story!
So after talking to Lee and Peter… Well, I mean, I couldn’t just leave it at that!
Next stop: IMDb Pro, to see if I could find contact info for the members of the cast. I reached out to Hill Harper’s manager, I reached out to Tracy Vilar’s manager, and—despite not being listed on the IMDb page for the pilot—I knew David DeLuise was in the mix, too, so I contacted his publicist, too.
First to get back with me: Tracy’s manager, who informed me that “she would love to participate” and promptly set up a call between she and I for the very next day. When we got on the phone, we chatted a little, and after I read her some of the things Lee and Peter had said, she reacted to some of their remarks as well.
How did you find your way into the pilot in the first place? Was it just a standard audition?
Tracy Vilar: Yeah, it was, but it was a process. I remember auditioning a lot. [Laughs.] They were really putting me through it! But it was actually a really good audition, and I remember being up against this model, and I was, like, "Oh, my God, I can't compete like that!" And she was green to comedy, so I was, like, "You know what? This is how I'm gonna play it." And it was such a good... [Hesitates.] You know, I just brought the funny. And that's what I love to do. And then Dave caught me in the parking lot as I was leaving the Fox lot, and he goes, "You are the funniest woman... You are just the funniest I have ever seen." And I was, like, "Wow, really?" And it was back then where, of course, it was in person, and there were 40 people in the room, executives and all that, and it was just Dave and I playing. And it was so cool to just play with him and hear that roar of laughter in the room. You always wish for that. So we were on the road to a really good show. I was, like, "This is it! This is the one! Here we go!" Oh, my God...
And then shooting it... Lee was so fun. Lee is so, so great. It kind of even felt a little Seinfeld-ish, because it really wasn't about anything in particular. [Laughs.] And I felt like I was the Elaine character, pretty much. I can't even tell you how much we gelled. We all gelled so well. That's what was the crazy thing about it. It's hard to do that, to get the comedy so tight that you can finish each other's sentences. I guess what makes it tough is when you're having such a good time and you know your character well and you know where the laughs are... It's so hard when something is so funny, and you feel it, and the audience is there with you, and then...the article in Variety comes out!
I had no idea it was going in that direction, and it was just explosive. Fox doesn't want to go forward with it this way, and Dave Chappelle calls Fox racist. It was front page. I remember seeing those words. And I was, like, "Oh, my God, this totally made a right turn. I didn't see it going this way!" And it helped me to be an artist like Dave, being very upfront with saying, "This is an amazing opportunity, and this could be such a hot show, but I will drop this show if you're making me change characters and you want everybody around me to be white..." It was my first time seeing someone be very clear about what they wanted it and completely and 100% not tolerating anything else. Because, you know, that's the time where we were, like, "Oh, my God, we're on a show!" And you'll do anything. But he was, like, "No, I don't even care. I am absolutely not moving forward like this."
I wasn’t in that scene [with the N-word], but I don't doubt that it was in there. I remember it being such a different script for network and for multi-cam. It wasn't the average script at all, and the comedy was just flowing, but it felt more like something that—if streaming had been around back then—would've been on a streaming platform.
I remember that there was something controversial, that things were always being discussed about some joke or other, so that probably was one of them. Because it was risque...and I loved it! It's in my comedy reel, and people who watch it are always, like, "Wow, you were in a scene with Dave Chappelle?" But it felt real. It just felt like I'd known him from way back. The scenario was that he's staying at my place because we grew up together, and he used to call me Yvonne the Ugly Goat Girl. [Laughs.] And I hadn't realized it! I was, like, "No, no, you used to have a crush on me!" And he goes, "No, that was your sister!" And then all of a sudden I change my mind and I'm, like, "You know what? Maybe you can't stay here!" But the whole thing... It just felt like I knew him. It felt real.
You know what? The whole thing was too early. It was ahead of its time. It was taking chances that, at that time, they could not handle. That was, what, '98? Dave was so early. And Peter was, too! Now we're at the point where we're doing that, but I can't believe that it took took over 20 years for things to change.
They gave me great lines. And I kind of liked that they were treating me like I was a stand-up, like I was Wanda Sykes or something. Because I'm not really a stand-up, but if you can give me a line like that, I can deliver it. I was just so happy to be in it! And then it led me to think of other things sometimes, so Lee let me say things that weren't in the script, which happens very rarely in multi-cam. But because I was around that energy, it was that kind of situation where it was, like, "You wanna riff? Let's do it!" So when I kick him out of my apartment, I tell him to watch his feet, and I go, "Watch your feet! Watch your feet! Watch your feet!" I just made up a whole little thing, and they were cracking up. And that's when I knew. I was, like, "Wow, I've finally hit the right one. I'm in the fucking zone." [Laughs.] Turned out I was in Fantasyland!
But you know what? I love people like Peter and Dave, who are just, like, "Oh, wait, you don't want it the way we shot it? Yeah, we're all gonna bounce, then." To just see them be willing to do that and have no problem saying, "Well, I guess we can't do it," it helped me a lot. So God bless them for saying, "Yeah, we gotta go. Bye!"
Lo and behold, it was only a few hours after hearing from Tracy’s manager that I received a reply from David DeLuise’s manager, saying that David was up for a chat, too, and provided me with his contact info. We soon agreed to hop on the phone a few hours after I was scheduled to talk to Tracy, giving me a chance to get her conversation transcribed before talking to him.
David DeLuise: I auditioned for [The Dave Chappelle Project], and...I have had at least 35-40 tests for television shows, which is when you're at that point where you could be the guy. You know what I mean? You could be one of the people on Friends. You could be that person. So I don't specifically remember the test, but I do remember that I was doing 3rd Rock from the Sun—I was doing a recurring on that show—and I remember telling my friend... I mean, when you're an actor, you're, like, "Do you wanna see the audition? I can do it for you!" [Laughs.] So I did it, and I remember when I got it, I was super excited, and we shot it over at Disney. But the idea of being on a Dave Chappelle show...
Mel Brooks is my godfather, so I had a one-line thing in Robin Hood: Men in Tights, and when I shot that, I weighed 260 pounds, had a full beard, and Cary Elwes says, "Are you with me? Yea or nay?" And then I raise my hand and I go, "Which one means 'yes'?" [Laughs.] And Dave Chappelle was there! I shot two or three days or something, because I was one of the Men in Tights, and when I got there [for the pilot audition], Dave was, like, "Hey, how are you? It's so good to see you again!" And I'm, like, "Wow, he remembered me!" He was so sweet, and...in that movie—I don't know if you've seen it—he does a great imitation of Denzel Washington when he's trying to inspire everybody, and I was in that scene, too. So he was super sweet and super nice.
It's funny: the publicist of that show is a woman named Stacey Scowley, who's actually one of my best friends now. She ended up becoming an actress and has a yoga studio, and I invested in her studio. She's great. It's funny how sometimes you don't end up talking to someone ever again—like, I haven't talked to Tracy Vilar since the pilot!—but with Stacey, we became best friends, because we ran into each other after that.
And then Peter Tolan, he had just come off of The Larry Sanders Show, and I was just, like, "Genius of comedy writing." So I was very excited to be a part of that experience, and when I came in... [Starts to laugh.] Where the soundstage is... It's like an office building, so above it were the dressing rooms, and I'm, like, "What the fuck is that smell? Somebody is smoking weed! Somebody is smoking pot on this floor!"
I am shocked—shocked!—to hear this.
Yeah, right? [Laughs.] And I knock on the door, and the door opened, and just this cloud of smoke comes out, and Dave goes, "Dave! How are you?" It was pretty funny. And for somebody who smokes, I've never met anyone more professional, more on time, more in it, more passionate about what was happening than him. And I kept describing it to everybody as "Dave Chappelle's Seinfeld," because his character was going to see if he could make it onstage at the Apollo...because, like, if you can make it at the Apollo, you're in!
One of the things that was so great when we were shooting it was, they had me eat fried chicken and watermelon and stuff, so "Leroy Jackson" was doing all these very stereotypical black things...but I was the white guy! Oh, it was such a good experience...
Having only seen a grand total of maybe a scene and a half of the pilot myself, do you know if your character was set to be a series regular if the show had indeed been picked up?
Yeah, I was definitely a regular, and I think I was going to be toyed with by Peter and Dave. Just every stereotypical thing that a white person can throw at a black person, I think they were going to make light of.
After they'd done it and shot it, they wanted to add somebody else, or they wanted to make Tracy Vilar's character white instead of Puerto-Rican or something like that. And that's when Peter and David said, 'Yeah, we're not changing any more stuff." And that's when Fox said, "Well, then we're not picking you up." So Fox, really, they were dicks. They were not good about it.
I do think that they would've picked up the show had Peter and David added another white character, but kudos to them for not kowtowing! It was just so silly. Because you could say to everybody, "It was a great show, but they didn't pick it up because of this," and then everybody was, like, "Yeah, well, they didn't pick it up because they didn't pick it up." But, of course, we know why they didn’t pick it up.
I think nowadays if that happened, there would be a little more light on it and a little more hell to pay, I guess. But you look back, and it's, like, "How stupid were they? Dave Chappelle's a comic genius, and they're not picking up the show?" I mean, you just look at the show he did do, Chappelle's Show, which was massively successful. But they had Peter Tolan and Dave Chappelle, and they said, "No." I mean, that's just ridiculous.
It was terrible. It was awful. It was racist...and I'm glad it was on the cover of Variety! I'm glad that people were aware of it! The racists didn't care. But Peter and Dave had integrity, and they didn't want to work for them. But it’s like they say: the best revenge is success.