Random Reminiscing: Looking Back at my Many Random Roles Interviews (Part 5 of Quite a Few)
With the 10th anniversary of my career as a freelance pop culture journalist coming up on April 1st, I’m feeling a tad nostalgic, so I decided that I wanted to start looking back at the portion of my freelance career of which I’m most proud: my Random Roles interviews for the A.V. Club.
If you accidentally missed the previous part of this reminiscing, you can check it out by clicking right here…and if you missed the part before that, well, each installment has a link to the previous installment in the intro, so just keep on clicking back until you’ve read ‘em all!
If you’re all up to date, though, then for heaven’s sake, why are you wasting time with this intro? Just dive right in!
Bill Paxton:
Boxing Helena (1993)—“Ray O’Malley”
Bill Paxton: I couldn’t remember that guy’s name if my life depended on it! Oh God... You know, that was a crazy movie. By Jennifer Lynch, who I hear is kind of making a comeback with her new film. I remember that was a very controversial film, and I got cast to play the boyfriend, and it was a chance for me to do a little bit of my Lizard King kind of thing, all pumped up and wearing tight leather pants, tight shirts, and stuff. I had kind of a bouffant hairdo. It was shot in Atlanta, and I remember it was steamy. It was the summer, and it was just steaming down there. I really liked Jennifer Lynch a lot. She really egged me on. And I really enjoyed Julian Sands. Great guy, great actor. But Julian was a bit of an exhibitionist. We were shooting in some big old house in Buckhead that had been built for a governor years ago. Beautiful ’20s-style house. We’d kind of taken it over, and that’s where his character lived and kept her in the box. I remember him just walking around, completely naked, with a book in his hand. [Laughs.] Yeah, he was quite an exhibitionist. But we had a lot of laughs. I also remember Sherilyn Fenn. We had to do… [Sighs.] Oh, we just had to do this interminable love scene, and Jennifer kept playing “Wicked Game,” the hit song by Chris Isaak. So every time I hear that song, I’m taken back to suckling on Sherilyn Fenn. [Laughs.] It was kind of a bizarre deal.
God bless you for having that memory, though.
Yeah, well, it’s a good memory. [Laughs.] I’ll take that one with me!
Bruce McGill:
My Cousin Vinny (1992)—“Sheriff Farley”
Bruce McGill: Well, I think that was just [casting director] David Rubin. I just went in and read, and I think I read really well, but I think David Rubin is one of the great casting directors. He was an assistant at that time, but I just think he’s a wonderful casting director and one of the best readers with you, which makes a difference. When you go in and the casting director reads with you, if they can’t read and they’re not a very good actor, the scene suffers, obviously. But I think I got the part from the read with David Rubin, but the first thing Joe Pesci said—and I knew Joe from New York, and I see Joe a lot out here on the golf course—and in a very Godfather-ly manner, “Yeah, y’know, I approved you for that role.” [Laughs.] I said, “Oh, thank you, Godfather, thank you!” I’m sure he did, and I’m glad he did.
But, you know, it’s not any one thing. There’s a cumulative effect to getting good parts as a freelance actor, because you’re only as good as your last job, and you have to keep going out and getting them. Unless you’re part of the finance structure, by which I mean a bankable star, which I never was and never will be. That’s why actors who might not be such great actors but are bankable will have a great career. But mine is different. I’ve got to sell myself every time. And I embrace that gladly now. I didn’t always. There was a period of time where I thought, “This is irritating. I’ve done 70 movies. Why won’t you just give me the job or don’t give me the job?”
Then I ran across the following phrase: “There are two kinds of people in the world: the very, very wealthy and salesmen.” And I knew I was not in the former camp, so instead of looking at auditions as what I used to call “grovels.” I used to say, “Oh, I can’t play golf, I’ve got a 2 o’clock grovel.” I really did! And even when I said it, I’d say, “That’s not a really good attitude.” So then I ran across that phrase about the two kinds of people, it happened instantly. [Snaps fingers.] In the blink of an eye and the passing of a thought, I went from calling them “grovels” to looking at them as sales opportunities, as if I were selling wrenches. And I would go to a buyer and say, “These are my wrenches. They’re the very best wrenches for your job. Here they are, and here’s the price.” So I began to look at auditions like that, and I’ve never had a problem with it again.
Of course, I don’t audition for things I’m not interested in doing. I don’t have to do that anymore. And now I’ll still go and meet and… Actually, agents think you should not read, that you should just go and meet and discuss what you would do. And I don’t think so. I mean, it depends, but time and time again, I think that if you’re a good actor and you prepare well and you can audition well, you should. Because you may knock somebody else out of the box just by being better in the room.
Ernie Hudson:
Ghostbusters (1984) / Ghostbusters 2 (1989)—“Winston Zeddemore
Ernie Hudson: Probably the most frustrating job, yet the most rewarding job. Just getting the job was frustrating. But I loved the actors—Bill Murray, Dan Aykroyd, Harold Ramis—and I still consider them very good friends. I’m so thankful that I got a chance to do it. After all these years, almost 30 years later, whenever I’m on the street, someone will call out, “Who you gonna call?” [Laughs.] So I’m glad to have been a part of that. I’m very proud of that, and I’d jump at the chance to do it again if it ever came up. I like Winston. I always felt like the cousin who had come to visit and was trying to find a place at the table. How do you fit in there? And when I look at it now, I realize it was just the way it should’ve been. And I have nothing but good thoughts about it and everyone involved. But it was very frustrating to be a part of it.
From what was the frustration derived?
Well, you want to be in the mix. Like I said, I’m always looking for ways to stretch and grow and bring everything I got to the table. But not having been included in a lot of the press stuff, including the poster that I sign now wherever I go… I’m on some of them, but fans always ask me about that, because they’re confused [about] why I’m not on a lot of them, and I’m like, “It was the studio’s decision.” So there was always that feeling of wanting to be a full part and not quite feeling that. But the fans see the character; I’ve met people who’ve named their kids after Winston. [Laughs.] And I have a dog named Winston! So I guess it was memorable in its own way.
This may be an urban legend, but did you audition to do the voice of Winston for the Ghostbusters animated series, only to be passed over for the gig?
Yeah, I did, and it was funny, ’cause they said, “You don’t have to audition for the part, but the director wants to hear you read the material.” So I went in to read the material, and the guy said, “No, no, no, that’s all wrong! When Ernie Hudson did it in the movie…” And I’m like, “Well, wait a minute: I am Ernie Hudson!” [Laughs.] So when I left, they said, “No, it’s not a problem, you’re gonna do the voice.” They called me about it—I was shooting a film; I can’t remember what film I was doing—and then I never heard anything from them. Then I found out that Arsenio [Hall] was doing it. I was very busy doing other stuff, but I was really disappointed because the thought of someone else doing Winston was not something I felt great about. Arsenio’s a friend, so there’s no disrespect to him. But they had me come in and read, and even though they said I wasn’t auditioning, I dunno, I guess I was just there to have the director get on my nerves. Who knows what happened there? Whatever the case, I didn’t get the part. Unfortunately.
Brent Spiner:
Ladies And Gentlemen, The Fabulous Stains (1982)—“Corrine Burns’ Boss”
BS: Oh, wow! Actually, I had a really nice part in that movie. I mean, I have, like, one second in the final-cut version, where I say “You’re fired” to Diane Lane. That’s about all you see of me. But I actually opened the movie with a hilarious scene, and… [Laughs.] You know, show business is bizarre, the things that happen. I was in New York doing a play at the time, and I auditioned for this part for Lou Adler, who directed the movie. He flew me to Vancouver, back in 1981, I guess, when Vancouver was unbelievably beautiful. They hadn’t done the whole high-rise rape of the city, as they’ve now done in Toronto, too, where everywhere you look, it’s steel-and-glass high-rises instead of the beautiful city it was. So I was thrilled to be there, and then I had this really funny, great scene. It took place in a McDonald’s, where Diane was employed by me, but I was being interviewed by a TV station and… Well, I won’t go into what the scene was all about, but it was a really fun scene. But somewhere, something happened.
The woman who wrote the movie, her name is Nancy Dowd. She’s a wonderful writer. She wrote Coming Home. And when I read the script, at that time, I thought, “This movie is going to do for girls what Breaking Away did for boys.” I thought it was going to be huge. It was a great script. So I had two days of shooting on the film, I finished, and then I get a phone call from Nancy. “Can you join me for dinner?” I say, “Sure!” So I met her for dinner, and she said to me, “How would you like to stay on the movie?” And I was shooting on the first two or three days of the shoot, but she said, “How would you like to stay on the whole movie—we’re going to shoot here and in London—and coach Diane?” Remember, Diane was 14 at the time. And I said, “Well, yeah, I’d love to do that!” I mean, my God, to go to London? So she said, “Okay, great! Well, you have to ask Lou.” Because they weren’t getting along at the time. And I said, “Uh, okay.” So right before I was leaving, he took a break and was playing basketball, as he tended to do between scenes, and I said, “Hey, Lou, how would you like me to stay on the movie and coach Diane?” And he was not happy with that question at all, which I understand now, but, hey, I took a shot. I was young, and I wanted to stay on the movie.
But then the movie came out, and… A lot of people had seen early cuts of it and had told me how good the scene was, so I was really excited. But then the movie comes out, there I am saying, “You’re fired,” and that was it. And that’s what happens in movies. People shoot movies that are 10 hours long, and they have to cut them down. But I thought for sure that scene would stay in the movie, because it was just such a great piece of writing. So I called his office to see if I could at least get the scene, because I didn’t really have much of a reel at the time, since I was pretty new in the movie business. And they informed me that that scene had been destroyed. [Laughs.] I was, like, “Really? He was that offended by my asking to stay on the movie?” I don’t even know how it would’ve happened, but, yeah, they told me they didn’t have a copy of it and said that it did not exist any longer. Which is a real shame, because I’d still like to have it. But there you go. [Laughs.]
Phil LaMarr:
The George Carlin Show (1994)—“Bob Brown”
Phil LaMarr: Ah! That was a very small part—not a good part—on a very small, not very good show. But it did change my life, because I got to meet George Carlin, and he was someone I’d grown up listening to. I had his albums and stuff. It’s interesting, because meeting him and seeing how he approached things has probably had a greater effect on me as a person than his work had on me as a performer. He was just so sweet.
I remember we were sitting around, shooting something and just talking, and he mentions a guy named Lord Buckley, this ’50s spoken-word guy, and he says, “You ever hear of Lord Buckley?” “No, never heard of him.” And he starts describing him to me, and he’s like, “He had the jazz thing and the black sound and rhythms, but he was a white dude…” And the next day, George came in with a cassette tape of his Lord Buckley albums that he had made for me.
Now, this is ’94. There was no digital. This was all analog. He dug through his albums, got his tape player, and made that thing. And he did it after he came home from doing rewrites and producing the pilot that he was starring in. The fact that someone of his stature—he was already legendary at that point—the fact that he would do that for me, this kid he barely knew, just to share something? That just blew my mind. And it also set the bar for how, as a performer, you have a responsibility to perform and how to act as a person. You don’t have to be a schmuck just because you’re famous. In fact, it’s all the more reason that you shouldn’t be.
When I was talking to Alex Rocco a few months back—
[Gasps.] You talked to Alex Rocco? He’s a fantastic guy. That reminds me of another great thing about that show. One of my favorite movies is The Stunt Man, so every time I would see Alex, I would just imagine him going, “Camera on! Camera on!” [Laughs.] Yeah, he was just so talented and so cool. A buddy of mine was really into The Godfather, so for his birthday, I asked Alex if he would call him and do the Moe Greene thing. And he did, and they wound up doing the entire scene, ’cause Alex still knew it. Of course.
Rocco touched on the whole issue with executive producer Sam Simon behind the scenes of The George Carlin Show. Were you witness to any of that turmoil?
PL: Not a lot of it. But we all knew Sam was crazy. He seems to have gotten better. It’s interesting, because I’ve worked with people who are just not nice people, and I’ve worked with people who are crazy, and the difference is: crazy is much worse. With the people who are not nice, you know what you’re gonna get. “Okay, here goes So-and-so, he’s gonna yell at me, I’m gonna leave.” But with crazy, you don’t know. Like, “Okay, he’s sitting there on set. Should I say ‘hi’? Or if I go past him without saying ‘hi,’ is he gonna yell at me for ignoring him?” With crazy, you just don’t know.
Barry Corbin:
Stir Crazy (1980)—“Warden Walter Beatty”
Barry Corbin: Oh yeah, that was a lot of fun. We shot that in maximum security in Florence, Arizona, in the Arizona State Prison, and all the extras were actual prisoners. [Laughs.] So it was kind of interesting to watch the interaction between. Richard Pryor was nervous every time they’d bring us in, ’cause we had to go through three different gates, and they had to slam one gate shut and then open another one. Then we got in there, and Richard was quiet and didn’t say anything. He’d just sit in a corner and watch. But Gene Wilder would be out there playing basketball with these murderers and people, all of ’em playin’ tough.
There was one old man there; he’d be out there lifting weights every day. And nobody spoke to him, nobody talked to him, people’d leave him alone, and he’d just stay out there, lifting weights. And I thought, “Well, what in the world?” So finally I went over to him, I was the only guy wearing a suit there in the yard, and I said, “’Scuse me, sir. I’ve been watching you, and I just wondered, how long have you been here?” He said, “Forty-six years.” And I said, “Forty-six? Oh my God! Well, how long are you here for?” He said, “They’ve got to release me in four years.” And I said, “Oh! Well, what are you gonna do?” He said, “I’m not sure. But I’m gonna be the strongest 72-year-old you ever saw.” [Laughs.] He never looked at me. He just kept lifting these weights. So I’m sure what he did, he got out and realized that the world had changed a whole lot, and the first guy that smarted off to him, he probably pinched off his head and went back to prison. [Laughs.]
Ed Asner:
The Mary Tyler Moore Show(1970-1977)/Lou Grant (1977-1982)—“Lou Grant”
Most lists cite “Chuckles Bites The Dust” as the definitive Mary Tyler Moore episode, but do you have a favorite Lou-centric installment from the show?
Ed Asner: Oh, I loved the one where Mary betrayed me and told Murray I’d slept with Sue Ann (“Once I Had A Secret Love”). I had a lot of fun on that show. But they were all memorable in some way or other. The funniest of all, though, is… We had a show where the station is owned by Slim Pickens (“The 45-Year-Old Man”). That was in the first year, I think. I think I even got fired in it, but Mary saves me by talking to Slim Pickens. George Kirgo wrote the show, and they were busy changing every goddamned thing, every line in it, to satisfy everybody. And in the end… I think he won an Emmy for that show, but hardly one of his original words was still in it. [Laughs.]
What did you think when they told you they were going to transition the character of Lou Grant from comedy to drama?
Well, like a fool, I thought, “Well, they’re smart, they’re brilliant, they’ll know what to do.” Fortunately, there was no competition waiting in the wings, so we had a two-year shakedown cruise with Lou Grant, so we could find our ass with either hand.
The series is on Hulu, and it holds up very well.
Yeah, well, that’s one thing you’ve got to come to expect from us: We do lasting work. [Laughs.] I think you’ll find Mary Tyler Moore holds up well, too. A lot of the problems we tackled then are still with us, unfortunately.
What are your thoughts on the current state of journalism?
Well, as bad as it was during Lou Grant, it’s even worse now. Papers are hanging on by their thumbs. TV has assailed them, and cable has destroyed the cutting edge of whatever existed in commercial TV. Lots of chaos, lots of choices, and you still end up with only a few to pick. It’s sad.
Given that you did both with the character, do you have a preference of comedy vs. drama?
I figure whatever drama you do, you should find the comedy to put into it. You need both. I learned a tough lesson there, one that made me realize that you can’t just hop off one train and get on the next easy as pie. We sweated bullets. Well, I did, anyway. You must always pepper it with laughs wherever you can, or Jack will be a very dull boy.
Ronny Cox:
Cop Rock (1990)—“Chief Roger Kendrick”
Ronny Cox: I’ll tell you one I’ll bet you aren’t going to ask me about, but it was one of my absolute favorites. It was a miserable failure, but I did a series called Cop Rock.
More people asked me to ask you about Cop Rock than any other project you were a part of.
[Laughs.] Are you kidding me? Well, I’ll tell you, I had more fun doing that show than any other show. That’s the only time in my 40-year career that I went to work every day, whether I was called or not. Even if I wasn’t called that day, I still went in and watched them shoot. My God, we just had so much fun. The learning curve on that went straight up. I think Glee owes all of its success to Cop Rock!
Steven Bochco unabashedly views it as his favorite project that didn’t get the love it deserved.
And so do I. I had more fun playing the chief of police on that show than you can even imagine.
Do you have a favorite number?
Yeah, my favorite number in that whole thing was when Carl Anderson and Louis Price, the former lead singer of the Temptations—they had that song that goes, “He’s guilty, judge, he’s guilty…” All of a sudden, they cut over, and the jury’s in choir robes. Oh God, that’s just as good as it gets. [Laughs.]