That Thing They Did: A Chat with Daniel Roebuck (Pt. 1)
Once upon a time - okay, it was a few years ago - Shout Factory released the punk rock western road movie Dudes on Blu-ray, and it inspired me to want to put together an oral history of the cult film, which I did. I ultimately couldn’t get the fucking thing published anywhere, mind you, so I just released it as an Kindle single (or some equivalent thereof), which you can and should buy for a buck by clicking right here.
In addition to interviewing Daniel Roebuck for the oral history, however, he and I also ended up doing an extended interview which I’d hoped I could turn into a Random Roles interview. That never happened, however, so my loss on that front is your gain. This, obviously, is Pt. 1, and I’m just going to go out on a limb and say that it’s going to end up being at least a three-parter when all’s said and done. Dan’s a delightful human being, he’s a wonderful storyteller, and he’s also a talker, which by extension makes him one of my favorite interviews.
I’ll admit that I’m revisiting this for the first time as I transcribe it, and I think the interview took place in 2017, so I really don’t remember what we covered, but I do seem to remember that, even though the conversation lasted for 90 minutes, we still didn’t cover everything that I’d written down that people had suggested at the time. So maybe there could be a sequel in the offing? That’s up to him. But don’t be afraid to let him know that you'd like a sequel. I mean, it couldn’t hurt, right?
One last thing: some of you will recognize his reminiscences about The Fugitive and U.S. Marshals as having appeared on the site previously, back when I was first trying to sway folks to subscribe, but even if you remember them, I doubt if you’ll mind revisiting them, because they’re still pretty great even on the second read.
P.S. If you like what you read, please don’t be shy about upgrading to a paid subscription!
Getting Grace (2017)—“Bill Jankowski,” director / co-writer / producer
How did this film come about? I know you had a lot to do with it getting made. Was it something you'd been considering doing for awhile?
Daniel Roebuck: Well, Getting Grace came to me about nine years ago. A producer named Mark Rupp had a script written by Jeff Lewis called Bending Spoons, and it was about this character—specifically, this Bill guy—who was a funeral director that spent every part of his funeral director deaing with death, and he was pretty shut down, a pretty closed guy, and he didn't really know why. And then this girl comes into his life, this 17- or 18-year-old dying girl, and she kind of blows open his life. And that was the initial script, which I was very drawn to. Jeff Lewis really set up these great characters. So when they sent it to me, I think to see if I would act in it, and I said, "No, I'd rather act in it and direct it," we went on a 7-year journey of a rewrite and came up with the movie that we have now, called Getting Grace, which is essentially written by Jeff Lewis and myself.
The gift that I had—one that actors don't generally have—was that I got to craft the part exactly for a skill set that I thought was underutilized, which was both physical comedy and drama, so creating a character that could be both funny and emotionally satisfying... Because, you know, if you're on TV, you're usually the good guy or the bad guy, and if I'm starring in a movie, I get more character, but oftentimes I'm playing a supporting role, and you're really hired to play a note, not to be the orchestra. So I got to write a character that I thought I could play well, and that's exactly what I did.
When compared to the types of things you've directed in the past, this was definitely in a different wheelhouse.
Oh, certainly. Before this, I had directed documentaries, I had directed so many plays that I couldn't even remember how many I'd directed, but this one, because it was dealing with such a unique subject... You know, when you're putting the death of a child onscreen, you'd better trust that you have a deft hand to paint that picture fully. Otherwise, it's going to scream like an ill-conceived TV movie. And all of our feedback on Grace has certainly been that it's true to life. Many people who've lost people say that the experience is right on the money...and funeral directors, by the way, who've seen the movie, because I play a funeral director, they're all grateful to have a character like a funeral director being the center of the film and not being creepy or murderous or odd. My character's just a regular guy. He's a regular guy in an extraordinary situation.
Did you find any particular challenges in being the star of the film as well as the director?
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting... Like, I'd never realized in all the times I directed plays in which I also starred that I was creating this very specific skillset. So mostly it was easy, because I'd done it before. But what was hard sometimes was to remind other people. Like, my wonderful script supervisor would try to talk to me about a matching situation when I was trying to get into an emotional place, and I knew in my heart that the matching would be the least of my concerns if I could emotionally make the scene work. So I was prepared for it. Others were a little confused by it. But by the end of the film, I'd say we really got it down to a science. And I'm pulling the same crew for my next movie, so I trust that everybody will be on the same page.
The last thing to say about it, honestly, is that I surrounded myself with people I trusted. The director of photography was Corey Geryak, who's also my brother-in-law, so I might look at him and say, "Okay, I think we're done," and Corey would shake his head and say, "No," and then I'd say, "Okay, one more!" Because I trusted him. I trusted my producers as well to watch my back on that, and then I ultimately trusted the editor to cut together the best of the performances. But it's not impossible to act and direct. Woody Allen's being doing it for years, Clint Eastwood's been doing it for years... And I like that, how I just put myself in their category. [Laughs.] "Woody Allen, Clint Eastwood, me..."
It's definitely not something that every actor could do, and certainly not every actor would want to do it, but you really have to be a good communicator completely. Because the other thing that's weird is, you know, I'm directing the other actors, but no one's directing me, so they've got to kind of be on that program and not be, like, "Hey, what the...? Nobody's telling you how to change things!" But they certainly see me changing, because as I'm directing them, I'm also directing myself.
By the way, we're actually driving by one of the places where we shot Getting Grace. There was a place called Roadside America that I've been going to since I was a little boy. and it's this magical, huge dream display that was built back in the '60s. I had this love story in the movie with me and the sick girl's mother, but I realized I never had us on a date, so we came out here and shot the date at Roadside America. I was so excited to put this place that I've loved since I was a little boy in a movie. That's kind of the fun of making movies in my hometown.
Oh, now here's another strange thing: we're now passing a Matthews Aurora Casket truck, which are the caskets we specifically used in the movie! God, that's so strange! How weird. It's just so odd that we're driving by them right as we're driving by the location!
Well, anyway, I know you haven’t seen it yet, but when you do watch Getting Grace... [Hesistates.] If I died during this conversation and anybody wanted to know what I thought about anything, you really could just put that movie up. It'd be, like, "Oh, I get it. I understand. That's what he liked, that's what he loved, that's what he thought, that's what he believed."
Cavegirl (1985)—“Rex”
We try to go back as far as possible in an actor’s on-camera career, and in your case, it doesn’t look like we can go back any farther than Cavegirl.
What I just said about Getting Grace? Cavegirl is none of that. [Laughs.] Cavegirl! What a delightful, well-made classic movie. You know, it would be so easy to make fun of Cavegirl...and by the way, as you saw, I did do that. I made fun of it a lot.
But the simple fact is, without Cavegirl we wouldn't be having this conversation, so I have to pay my respects to Cavegirl and certainly have gratitude for Cavegirl. I am pleased that I'm a better actor now than I was then! [Laughs.] I'm grateful for that! And David Oliver, who made that movie, he put himself out on the line, and I'm sure he lost money. In fact, he's very clear that everyone owes him money. But I'd say I got out of it what I needed to, I think, from a career standpoint, and I made sure that I didn't let that be the highlight of my career. I guess that's what I'm saying.
You know, in those things that I was doing then, I'd say Rex was closer to the real me than Samson (in River's Edge) or Biscuit (in Dudes). [Laughs.] I was more of a nerd than a killer or a punk rocker. But I did appreciate the opportunity to be in the movie. I mean, look, I was in town eight months, and I was starring in a movie! We're already crossing the cuckoo bell. It's, like, "How can that be?"
Having revisited it just the other night, I have to say that, as '80s films go, Cavegirl has some of the best gratuitous nudity of the era.
Yeah, unfortunately, it's mostly not the girl you want to see naked. [Laughs.] What's weird about it... We had a scene, and the way that scene came to be, that's a story in and of itself, but evidently—and this is hearsay, but it came from one of the two people in the room—David Oliver show the first cut to Mark Tenser (of Crown International Pictures), and Mark Tenser said, "We need more tits in it!" So that's why there's that scene in the locker room. We went back and shot that a couple of months after we made the movie and put the locker-room tits scene in. Those girls, by the way, if you pay attention, there's a girl named Jasae, there's Michelle Bauer... You've seen some of them in porno movies, you've seen some of them in pictorials in magazines in the '80s. They were all very nice, I remember that. And they didn't feel anywhere near as weird being naked as I felt being around them being naked!
How was Cynthia Thompson?
Oh, God, such a sweet girl. I didn't understand Cynthia at first. One of those Barbarian Brothers was her boyfriend—Peter, I think—and she just thought he was the smartest up-and-coming filmmaker. Uh, I...don't want to say anything bad. He was okay. He was a tough guy when he came to visit, made sure that everybody knew that he was her boyfriend. But Cynthia, she was... Like, she had never even seen a play. And I didn't understand that, because I had a lot to learn about show business and actors, evidently, but I thought that you did theater, and then you became an actor. I didn't know you could not do theater and still become an actor. Now nobody really cares what you've done. As long as you look good on camera, they don't care if you've even done a soundbite on camera.
But Cynthia was just such a sweet girl. Such a sweetheart. I'm not kidding about that. And I'm glad it was her and me, and not some hardened... [Hesitates.] I don't know how to say it, except that she was a sweet person, and girls who would take their clothes off in a movie aren't always sweet people. Does that make sense?
Absolutely.
But it was such a weird situation, because we were essentially all living in a commune. If they put me on a movie now and they said, "So we're putting you and the female lead in side-by-side condos," I'd say, "Nope!" [Laughs.] I don't want to see the female lead when I'm off work. I don't want to feel like I’m at work all day. But in that movie, it did feel like we were at work all day, all night... We were always together! So let's say that Cavegirl was a great beginning and a blessing and a perfect place to jump off from...and then not hang around!
For proof of how much fun Roebuck has made of CAVEGIRL over the years, head over to Vimeo and watch CAVEGIRL: A Second Journey Back in Time, which is described thusly: “Writer, director Daniel Roebuck and long time collaborator, David Hansen Sturm, team up on this one of a kind MAKING OF documentary celebrating Roebuck's first and almost certainly worst feature film. Many teenage sex comedies were made in the 1980's and have long disappeared from the public consciousness (mostly for the betterment of mankind) yet CAVEGIRL is released constantly on DVD and remains a fan favorite. CAVEGIRL, A SECOND JOURNEY back in time is a unique and fascinating look into the creative process of this late night staple.”
So what’s your origin story? What led you down the path to become an actor in the first place?
Well, when I was a little boy, I was so intrigued by television, and it appears that the simple fact is that at about six years old, I started saying, "When I'm on TV..." Of course, it was the late '60s, so my parents thought what any parents would think if their child started saying things like that: "My child is mentally handicapped." [Laughs.] "Elaine, did you drop him down the steps and not tell me?" But because I kept saying that, they got me a cardboard television that I'd pretend to be on. I always say that my father invented the first cardboard remote control, because he tried to change the channel. Unfortunately, he didn't realize that I was on every channel, because I owned the network!
Back then, it wasn't about being an actor. I just wanted to be an entertainer. I'd watch those celebrity roasts and Bob Hope specials, and I'd watch movies. I'd watch horror movies, and I finally realized that some of the actors were in makeup, and that it wasn't always different actors in every movie, that Boris Karloff always looked different and [Bela] Lugosi looked different. So the actors interested me, the comedians interested me, the impressionists, the ventriloquists... All of them worked together in these variety shows, but since I was also watching movies, I'd see John Wayne in a western, and then I'd see John Wayne doing a comedy skit where he's making fun of himself.
So I was all about entertaining, even if I didn't really know what I wanted to be. I was a clown in a circus when I was 12, and then I started performing as an impressionist - like Rich Little - when I was 13 and 14, and also as an impressionist. I wasn't a very good magician, but I had great patter, so it was mostly about making people laugh.
But the real moment of truth came when Give 'Em Hell, Harry was playing in '75. It was a one-man play that they filmed and showed in movie theaters, starring James Whitmore. I so wanted to see it, and my friend Sherrie Reinert called me and said, "I got tickets for this movie from school. Do you want to go see it?" And I remember it was a weird ticket. It was like a play ticket, it wasn't a regular movie ticket. But we went to see it, and I walked into that theater an entertainer, and I walked out an actor.
I was, like, "That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do whatever that guy just did for an hour and a half all by himself, making you believe that he was the President of the United States." And it's a one-man show, so obviously all of the conversations are... Well, half the conversations are where he's filling in the other half with his inflection. I was blown away. And that is absolutely the moment. That was a game-changer: I wanted to do theater. Well, we had this Pennsylvania Playhouse in town, so right after that I went to my first play audition, got in the play, and then...that's what I did. I just did theater from that point on and set my sights on either going to New York or California.
But there's no doubt about it: from the time I was six, I knew I was going to be on TV...and it essentially took 14 years. But if I'm mentoring other actors or kids or people, the simple fact is that - unlike my friend Jon Cryer - I wasn't the child of professional known actors. That's not to insinuate that Jon had it easier than I did, just that to convince the people around me that I wanted to do it was the first hurdle I had to cross. I was not surrounded by theater folk. I was surrounded by hard-working people who initially took my desire to be an actor as a shirking of my responsibility as a citizen to work...and I don't blame 'em! It's a lot to say to someone, "Oh, I'm gonna go to Hollywood and be in movies!" If someone said it to me now, I'd say, "Don't do it!" [Laughs.] I'd ask, "Did somebody drop this kid down the stairs?"
Luckily it worked out for me, but my argument would be that I knew it was going to. So every decision I made from the time I was six until the time I was 21 was based on, "How do I get on television?" So I didn't do drugs. When I'd drink, I'd drink a little, and I wouldn't drink all the time, like a normal teenager would. I didn't get lost in the miasma of teenage angst. I dated a gorgeous girl who said, "I don't want you to be an actor, because I'll get jealous if you kiss another girl," and I was, like, "Oh, okay, then we're not dating anymore." I didn't let anything stop me. And the truth is, Will, that a lot of people let things stop them. They get sidetracked by a myriad of things that keep them from touching their dreams.
Not you, though.
Not me! [Laughs.] No, not me. I just wasn't going to take "no" for an answer, evidently. [Hesitates.] The truth is, dude, I don't really remember a time when I wasn't trying to make someone laugh. My parents would confirm that with exasperation. And pride. But mostly exasperation. I asked my mom once, "Was I ever one of those terrible kid actors?" And she said, "You were never a kid!"
The Fugitive (1993) / U.S. Marshals(1998)—“Deputy U.S. Marshal Robert Biggs”
DR: So here's the crazy story about this. I auditioned just for shits and giggles. Richard Kimble was initially going to be played by Alec Baldwin, so it's funny that Alec Baldwin was replaced by Harrison Ford, who Alec Baldwin replaced in the Jack Ryan movies. The first part I auditioned for - and it wasn't Andy Davis directing yet at the time, it was someone else - was the one-armed man. And if I had to guess, I'd guess that was about a year before the other audition. And for the second audition...
I remember the audition specifically, because of something funny. I went over to Warner Brothers and was waiting awhile. Andy was directing by then, and he's a very gracious, generous person, so he was really giving everyone who came in there a meeting. And long before this bullshit now where the Screen Actors Guild or the studios enforce open casting, Andy Davis was... I mean, those were his four characters, and who they were was going to be based on the four people he liked the best. It didn't matter if they were black, white, Indian, Latino, lesbian... Whoever the four people were that he liked the best and that he thought would make a good team, they were gonna be the characters. So they weren't even written as men or women as we auditioned for them.
So I was waiting and waiting and waiting, and it was taking so long...and right when I was the next one to go in, somebody got a call, went into the office, and we could clearly hear her say, "Andy, Harrison's on the phone for you." So he came out of the audition office, said, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry," walked into the other office, and closed the door. 10 minutes... 20 minutes... 30 minutes... 45 minutes! I couldn't fucking... [Takes a breath.] I finally went up and I said, "Look, this is crazy! I've already been here an hour and a half!" And the girl says, "Trust me, just stay and wait. Please wait." [Grumbling.] "All right, I'll sit down, I'll sit down..." And I wait. He comes out, I'm the next one to go in, and when I sit down, Andy Davis says, "I am so sorry!" And I said, "Listen, if Harrison Ford had called me, I would've made you wait 45 minutes!" And I think that's what got me the part. And Andy... That's a classy guy. I've worked with a lot of people, and Andy Davis really is one of the classiest directors I've ever met. A great guy, a great storyteller.
I was doing Matlock at the time, so I was clean-shaven, but because I grew up as such a fan of horror movies and the makeup - that was always a hobby of mine - I was wearing a fake mustache. And when they hired me for the movie, the very first thing they said was, "Don't shave the mustache!" So I had to hunt down the makeup man and inform him that I was wearing a fake mustache, so they could have some built. [Laughs.]
But it's no exaggeration to say that, really, everything we say in that movie, we made up in rehearsal on the site. We said it, and then we'd shoot it. Except for - and this is with all due respect to the writer - "This is hinky." That was his line. But ever other thing we say, the way we phrase it, that was all Joey Pantoliano, Scotty Caldwell, Tom Wood, myself, and Tommy Lee Jones working it out.
And how was Tommy Lee Jones to work with?
Well, you know, Tommy is... [Hesitates.] Here's what Tommy has had to deal with his entire life: wherever he goes, he's the smartest guy in the room. And that's a simple fact: he's a goddamned genius. He's just smart. He's an actor, but he could've been a philosopher. He could've been Emmanuel Kant, for all I know. But he ended up being Samuel Gerard. So...let's say he was a bit gruff. But he never bothered me. I saw him deliver such acts of kindness over those two movies. A guy came up to him when we were shooting in New York and had, like, five or ten of these huge color photos of him as Two-Face. I mean, we're talking, like, 16" x 20" or 24" x "36. Huge! And Tommy signed every one of 'em! And that's one of my great regrets: that I didn't say, "Tommy, can you ask if I can have one of those?" [Laughs.] "I mean, if you're signing all of those, maybe he'd give you one for me?"
So I've got nothing but respect for him, and I think any one of those actors would tell you that when they were making U.S. Marshals - and believe me, this is how Hollywood works - they would've happily written us out and not paid us, but Tommy insisted that it had to be the same marshals. And if he hadn't done that, believe me, it would've been four other idiots. Instead, it was mostly the same idiots, although Scotty Caldwell was doing a Broadway play, so LaTanya Richardson stepped in for that role.
People would say all the time to LaTanya, "You were so good in the first movie!" And she'd say, "That wasn't me! We don't all look alike!" And I finally took her aside and said, "LaTanya, we were wearing winter clothing the entire movie. Who knows what Scotty Caldwell looked like? Just say "thank you," and when you see Scotty Caldwell, tell him, '257 people said you did a good job in the movie.' Nobody's trying to insult anybody or say that anybody looks alike." I mean, when I did The Fugitive, I didn't even know who the fucking crew was! It was 10 degrees below zero when we were shooting that drain stuff. So you'd see someone in the hotel and they'd say, "Good morning!" And I'd say, "Good morning!" And they'd say, "I'm the focus puller!" And you'd say, "Oh, that's right!" Because you never saw their face. They were in parkas! You don't know who's got hair, who doesn't have hair... It's all very confusing.
I think the only other person I've interviewed from The Fugitive who actually interacted with Tommy Lee Jones was Nick Searcy, and he said he annoyed Tommy Lee at some point.
No! He did?
Well, he says he did, anyway.
Yeah, I... I don't know. Look, Nick's a great actor, and my feeling on that is that Tommy may have just seemed gruff. I mean, I'm not saying that Nick's lying, I'm just saying that Tommy's gruff responses could've been misread. But I know that Tommy Lee Jones loves great actors, and Nick Searcy is a great actor, so maybe Tommy said, "Don't interrupt me while I'm talking!" or whatever he might've said.
I mean, hell, the very first day, we pull up - I think I was driving the car- and our first shot was our first shot of the movie: the car pulls up, and we walk down the hill. And shot it maybe 10 times, and 9 times I was the very first one up the hill, and the 10th time I was not. And Tommy yells down, "Ran Doebuck!" [Laughs.] That's what he called me: Ran Doebuck. He said, "Ran Doebuck, hurry your ass up!" I came up and said, "Now, listen: I was the very first one up here 9 times! Don't talk to me like that!" And he said, "All right!" And that was that. We were fine.
Look, those two movies were amazing, and such a great experience. But more than anything else, here's what's the greatest: to be in a movie that people say, "Oh, The Fugitive is one of those movies that, whenever it's on, wherever it is, I sit down and watch it." And I think, "I have those movies." For me, it's Jaws or Schindler's List or The Sting or whatever. The Great Escape, that's another one. So for other people to see a movie I made like that... It gives me great joy.
Agent Cody Banks (2003) / Agent Cody Banks 2: Destination London (2004)—“Mr. Banks”
Okay, see, you keep pulling ones with good stories. [Laughs.] So the director of the first Agent Cody Banks, Harald Zwart, was a very smart guy. He was from the Netherlands. Good guy. So I went in to audition for that and thought I had a very, very, very good audition, and it turned out I did, because I was in the running right from the beginning. I always audition in the right costume, so I had the short-sleeve white shirt and tie. I felt like the guy's dad! And they were very interested, but then one day I get a call that - oh, God - they offered the part to Judge Reinhold. And I was, like, "Ah, shit, really? I thought they were gonna give me that part! Well, all right. That's all right for Judge. That's good." And then I'm having a conversation with my manager, and she says, "Well, believe it or not, there's some trouble here." Evidently they didn't set the deal before they announced it, and now the Judge Reinhold camp is asking for more money." And I want to assert that this is hearsay, and that I wasn't in on the negotiations.
Duly noted.
So I said to my manager, "Call them right now and tell them that, no matter where they are in the Judge Reinhold negotiation, I'll work for half of whatever he wants, and I'll sign the papers today." And she goes, "Well, let's try it." And then she calls back 10 minutes later and says, "We just got the job!" [Laughs.]
Because sometimes you get caught up in money, but... I've had money, and I've not had money, and I'm gonna have money in the future and I'm gonna not have money in the future. It doesn't really matter. Money always comes when you need it, if you're a good person and you're nice to people. So whatever I was losing was irrelevant, because I was gaining the chance to work with that really nice director who I liked. And it did work out.
I remember when I got to the set, he gave me such a big bear hug, and he said, "I am so glad you're here!" And, y'know, this isn't A Guide to How to Be an Actor. Other actors might've handled that differently. But who would've known there was gonna be an Agent Cody Banks 2, and that it was gonna be in London? So whatever I lost with that first film, I ended up getting to go to London to be in the second film and take my family! So everything works out. You've just got to have faith that things are going to work out the way they're supposed to.
I liked that kid a lot who played Cody Banks. Frankie Muniz. I thought very highly of him. Good guy. Good heart, good soul, good kid. You know, because I had kids, so I'm always aware when I'm with kid actors of how they act. Andy Griffith used to tell me... When I asked him, "How was Ron Howard such a great actor?" he said, "Ron Howard would rather play baseball than play Opie, and when he'd get a little cocky, his dad would take him behind the set and spank him, and then he'd come out and do his job." So I keep an eye on the kid actors. But Frankie Muniz was a good boy...and is probably now a good man, I would hope.
John Dies at the End (2012)—“Largeman”
Oh, that's so funny. The first A.D. would say, "Can we have Large Man on the set?" And I'd say, "It's Largeman. It's not 'A Large Man.' It's Largeman. Largeman." [Laughs.] Okay, so Don Coscarelli is about the coolest guy you'll ever meet in your life. Have you ever gotten to interview him?
I haven't. I'd love to.
Well, you tell me when you want to hook that up. I can make that happen for you.
All right!
Okay, so Don Coscarelli... Now, imagine this thing I'm doing with Getting Grace, and then consider that he did it when he was 21 years old. That's when he made his first movie. He's been doing it forever. And I love those Phantasm movies! I got to know him through Bob Ivy, who was my stunt double for awhile. A great guy, and the #1 Phantasm fan in the world...and then when they started doing Phantasm 3, 4, and 5, Bob started working on them! It was inconceivable! But he'd do stunts on them. And then Bob plays the Mummy in Bubba Ho-Tep, so that's how I ended up in Bubba Ho-Tep. And then Don and I really liked each other, so he's been kind enough to include me in everything since then.
So Don calls me up and says, "I have this part that I want you to play, and it's really one of the greatest parts in the movie, because it's a character who kind of explains what's happening in the movie." I'm, like, "Great!" He goes, "Yeah, he's got, like, a five-page monologue." "Perfect!" And he goes, "Aaaaaaaand he's wearing a mask." I go, "What? What'd you say?" [Laughs.] So I was, like, "So, what, he wears a mask, but then he takes it off when he does the monologue?" "Nope!" "Ah, shit." So Don gives me great props for taking the role despite the fact that no one would see my face. Me,. however, I approached it like, "Did anyone ever see Roddy McDowall's face in Planet of the Apes? No! But was he in four of the five in the original series? Yep!"
And just by the way, Will, I maintain that if it wasn't for Roddy McDowall playing Cornelius as well as he did, there would've never been another Planet of the Apes. Or it certainly wouldn't have been five of 'em, and nobody would've known what the hell it was now, so they wouldn't be making the new ones!
Anyway, so I was, like, "Well, look, at least they knew it was Roddy McDowall because of his voice!" And then I realized that, for Largeman, I also had to change my voice to that kooky one. So, really, my own mother couldn't tell it was me in the movie if she watched it! But I had a great time.
You know, there's a scene... If you see the movie, I do this monologue in front of all these nude people, and if you remember that old saying about how if you're nervous in front of an audience, you've got to imagine them nude, it'll make you less nervous? Well, I was up there shooting that scene, and I said, "You know, to make me less nervous, I'm imagining all of you wearing clothing...and it's really working for me!"
That was a truly great experience. But anytime I work with Don is great. I also did Phantasm: Ravager, and even though David Hartman directed it, Don is hands-on [as a producer], and he's really a great example of the correct approach to this. Like, when I direct, I'm not sitting around waiting for someone to move stuff. If someone says, "Could you grab that light?" I pick it up and I move it, just like Don Coscarelli does on his movies. You've got to get it done, and you've got to get it done quickly. I'd always say, "God, Don, don't you have somebody to do that?" and he'd say, "No! I don't!" [Laughs.] He's just a great guy, Don. And you know what's neat is being a part of that whole... Well, you know, the Coscarelli movies are such cult favorites. It's like the Rob Zombie movies. I like being part of those, too. Because they're these cult movies that everybody likes so much.
Final Destination (2000)—“Agent Wiene”
I wanted to be Schrek, but they made me Weine. [Laughs.] Final Destination is like The Fugitive. Really, it could've been any actor in those roles. It's not like those were tailor-made to my unique gifts. It could've been anybody chasing those kids in that movie. So I'm very lucky that it was me in the movie.
If you watch the movie with the commentary, I think [director] James Wong says, "You know, Roebuck was the only guy who came in the room and knew that all of the characters' names were from old horror movies, so we had to give him the part!" Because, you know, it was Max Schreck [Count Orlock in Nosferatu], Robert Wiene [director of The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari]... All of the character names are inspired by horror movie actors and directors! Evidently not everyone picks up on that. But James and his partner also had monster models in their office, all of which I had in my office at home! And it's cool when you have something to talk about that's not the movie. That always helps you as an actor.
Yeah, that was a good time. A lot of late nights in Vancouver. The actor Roger Guenveur Smith, who I worked with, was a hell of an actor but a quiet talker. A guy where you spent a lot of time going, "What'd you say? Say it again? What was that?" [Laughs.] You know, when you're an actor, especially when you're in a car with somebody a lot... Not only are you driving to and from location, but you're in the car shooting, so you're sitting there during set-ups and you're talking, so you really want to have a good relationship with the guy in the car with you. When we did Disorganized Crime and it was Ed O'Neill and I... Shit, man, he and I laughed so much, we wanted to give some of the money back! We had such a good time. We would read plays, we'd improvise... We were just silly! And Roger...wasn't really silly. But there's a great one-man show that's on Netflix, I think, where you can see what a good actor he is, called Rodney King.
[Also recommended - and, also like Rodney King, a one-man show directed by Spike Lee - is A Huey P. Newton Story, which as of this writing is available to view on Starz.]
Disorganized Crime (1989)—“Bill Lonigan”
Well, since you brought up Disorganized Crime, it just happens that I was going to ask you about it anyway.
Well, as you can probably tell, I remember things first in terms of the audition, so... I go in to audition for the part of Bill Lonigan, and...what was that, '87 or '88?
Probably '88 when you were actually auditioning.
Okay, '88. So I was 25, and the character was written to be older, because they're partners. You consider that Cavegirl was '85, River's Edge was '86, Dudes was '87, whatever TV I did in-between, and then this character. So it was just a year before that I was still playing teenagers! So I went to audition for this, and I had a mustache glued on for this one. [Laughs.] And I met [director] Jim Kouf, who's become a lifelong friend, and operating the video camera him... Jim's, like, "Hi, I'm Jim, and that's John Badham over there." And I'm, like, "Wait... You're John Badham?" "Yeah, hi!" I'm, like, "And you're videotaping my audition?!" "Yeah!" I was, like, "Uh, okay!" But I was going, "Shit, John Badham? Are you kidding me?!" I mean, War Games was one of the greatest movies I'd seen in the previous two years, and here he is, videotaping my audition! [Laughs.]
So it was a great time, good people... [Long pause.] You know, Will, I hope my stories aren't disappointing you because they aren't about the intense preparation I went through to become Bill Lonigan.
No, no, it's the anecdotes about the people and the experiences... That's the best bit.
Okay, well, we went Montana, and if memory serves, there was a writers strike, but because Kouf wrote the movie and was directing it, it fell into this grey area where we could still shoot it. So nobody was working anywhere in Hollywood, and we were in Montana, having the times of our lives! Ruben Blades and Bill Rush and Lou Diamond Phillips... Now, imagine this, dude, knowing everything you know about me now and my love of horror movies, when they said it was Fred Gwynne playing Max. [Makes guttural noises resembling someone possibly having a stroke.] I got to spend two months with Fred Gwynne! That's, like, as good as it gets!
But were you able to really talk to him about The Munsters, though? Because I know he had some difficulty being associated with the role, but maybe it was only a semi-albatross.
You know, I think publicly that's true. I mean, I brought my Herman Munster doll that I had in my toy collection, and he signed it for me.
That's awesome.
And he drew me a picture of himself as Herman! What I think about Fred was... You know, I think regular people wouldn't have known how astounding he was. They would've just seen him as a guy in makeup. But as an actor, Fred... If you put on The Munsters and made Robert De Niro watch it, he'd say, "I can't do that. I wouldn't know how to do that. I have no idea how to do that." That character is an iconic television father. Not an iconic television monster, but an iconic television dad. Now, how the hell do you do that if you're not one of the greatest actors who ever lived? Because when you watch Herman Munster, you're, like, "Oh, he's like my dad. He's goofy sometimes, he's selfish sometimes, he's jealous sometimes, he's funny, he's endearing, he always loves his kids and his wife..." He said to me one time - and it's so absurd - "Dan, I don't understand comedy. You understand comedy, but I don't understand comedy." [Makes scoffing sound.] Yeah, okay, Herman Munster. You don't understand comedy, you only helped define it for a generation!
Another thing we did on the movie... There was a character in the movie, and we said to Kouf, "You should play the character!" It was just a guy at the police station, and he ended up cutting himself out, but he said to me, "I'll do it if you direct it." Now, what that means is, I just said, "Action!" That's all it really meant. I didn't really direct it. But we pretended that I was directing it. So we're doing this scene, we're shooting it, and I say, "Action!" and "Cut!" And it's a scene with Fred. And Fred comes over to me afterwards and says, "Are you gonna tell him he sucked? Are you gonna tell him he's ruining his own fucking movie?" I said, "I'm gonna tell him." He says, "You're a pussy! Go fucking tell him, you cocksucker!" [Laughs.] And we even have video! You can't hear him talking to me, but you can see me laughing and shaking my head. To this day, I've never told Jim Kouf...but for the record, he wasn't ruining his movie, even if he did cut his scene out!