Interview: George Wyner (Part 2)

WARNING: If you haven’t yet read Pt. 1 of this piece, then you’re going to want to do that. I’m not saying you can’t read Pt. 2 first, but you’re only ruining the experience for yourself.

When you mentioned George Segal a moment ago, it reminded me that when the news broke about Jessica in the wake of the news about George, I posted on social media, "Either God really, really didn't want a Retired at 35 revival, or He wanted it all to himself, but... God, if you're listening, if you are doing a 'reboot,' if you could just hold off a little longer before securing the whole cast..."

[Laughs.] Well, yeah, it's true! And Ron and George were friends, too, by the way. They'd done films together, and they knew each other well socially, so all of a sudden Jessica and George got to work together, and then I got thrown in there, too, so... That was great. I know the show wasn't successful, but the experience of working on it was certainly wonderful for me. 

If you don’t mind, I want to tell you a quick story involving George that I think you’ll appreciate.

Sure!

Okay, so I was going to be interviewing George for the A.V. Club, and in the interim - by pure happenstance - I ended up doing an interview with Elliott Gould. Well, when I told Elliott I was going to be talking to George, he said, “Ask Segal about The Feminine Touch…because he’s the one who got me into it!”

Uh-oh. [Laughs.]

Oh, yeah. So a few weeks pass, I get on the phone with Segal, and after he and I talk about California Split, I say, “As it happens, I talked to Elliott a few weeks ago, and he said to ask you about The Feminine Touch, since you’re the one who got him into it.” And Segal just explodes into laughter. And after the laughter dies down, he tells me, “Look, we were both on our asses, and we got some money. We got $15,000, and we were happy to get it! I was, and he was, too, no matter what he tells you!”

That's great! [Laughs.] Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah, George, he'd cut to the chase, no doubt about it! What a great answer. That's perfect. Yeah, there are some bad jobs, but as long as we have a good paycheck...!

And this is a good segue into something I was going to ask about anyway: you aren’t credited, but you’re in The Long Goodbye.

Yeah! I love The Long Goodbye! And I know I was uncredited, which was fine. [Laughs.] My agent said, "I want you to drive out to this place where they're shooting," and I thought, "Okay, but...this is a Robert Altman movie!" I mean, my God, everybody loved Robert Altman! And Elliott! Actually, it was kind of a comeback movie for Elliott in a way. He'd had some issues with the industry which were well known at the time, and it was hard for him to get hired. And Robert Altman said, "Screw that! Let's get you back to work!" And, boom, he did. Because Elliott's a remarkable actor.

So it was fun to be with the two of them and sitting down and talking. We were in somebody's house, and it was very casual. But my scene was small. I got to the house where we were shooting, and I said, "I don't even know what I'm doing! I was just told to come here!" And he said, "Oh, you're a cop," or something. And I said, "Uh, where's Wardrobe? Because I don't look like one at the moment!" [Laughs.]

Anyway, it was brief, but it was the first time I was working with Elliott, and I worked with him again after that. But the big thrill was working with Altman. I keep talking about these people I've worked with, but you've hit perfectly on which ones where holy grails for me, and Altman was definitely one of them...even though I'm not even sure he knew I was on the set. [Laughs.] But I worked for him! 

As a journalist, I have to ask about Fletch. You kind of cornered the market on skeevy attorney types with that film.

[Laughs.] Yes, I went on to play lots of those kinds of guys! You know, Fletch is just so funny, and Chevy Chase was just so wonderful in the film. I couldn't have enjoyed it more. I mean, he came out of Saturday Night Live, so you've got to be on your toes, because he's going to improvise a little bit. And he kind of had a green light to do that. But I loved that. Some of that stuff would just come out of the blue in the middle of a take. All of a sudden he's writing on the back of your head or something! But you just go with it, and...it worked! I mean, I was obviously playing the complete opposite of him. I was the humorless schmuck.

And I must say that the Fletch fans are wonderful. They'll come up to me and say something about garnishing your wages, that kind of thing. It's one of those movies that'll be around forever, because the fanbase is just enormous. And I'm part of it, because I think it's just an absolutely hilarious movie. We did a second one, too, after that - Fletch Lives - and it was nice, but... You know, it's hard to do a sequel to such a successful movie, and that was one that - for me, anyway - I don't think quite lived up to the original. But the fact that they were polite enough to ask me back.. That means a lot to an actor. Anyway, whoever's a Fletch fan out there, I'm with ya! I'm a Fletch fan as well, absolutely!

You know, I said a minute ago that you'd cornered the market on skeevy attorney times, but I think you nailed it: what you really cornered the market on was humorless schmucks. 

[Laughs.] Yes! I was the guy who was anything but cool. But it was fun! It's all character work. I mean, I obviously didn't come out here to become a leading man! But the character work... What's really nice is when you get the chance to do not only comedic work but also dramatic work, or something in that vein. And I was able to climb over that fence, as it were, and do some dramatic work. But comedy is something that I just love, and being the one who's actually the source of the comedy - not because you're the funny one, but because you're the object of it! - I think that's actually a perfect example of it. 

I have someone who wanted me to ask this very specific question: "Why couldn't you ever get along with Jim Rockford?"

[Long, loud laugh.] Oh, my goodness... You know, I have to say, honestly, that... Well, I'm repeating myself, of course, but when you do something and you're working with actors who you grew up with as a child, you're, like, "I can't wait!" And with The Rockford Files, Jim Garner was my hero! He was this handsome, cool guy - and funny! - and I don't think he ever pulled a gun once on The Rockford Files, but he'd still get the bad guys. So doing the show was again one of those things where quietly inside you're going, "Oh, my God, I'm working with Jim Garner!" 

You know, in those days, you could do a show multiple times - and I did four Rockford Files - and always play a different character...and only a year apart! [Laughs.] That's just how the industry worked. Nowadays, if you do another episode of a show, you come back as that same character or you don't come back. And I understand that. But in those days, it was freewheeling. It was, "Yeah, come on and play the doctor...or if not, you can play the cop!" In this case, I was always playing the same type of character with Jim. And we ended up working together quite a bit. I ended up doing a short-lived series with him, too. 

Jim was someone who the crew loved, and when the crew loves you, then you know you're doing something right. He cared about people. And I'm not saying Jim and I became great friends - I won't pretend to do that - but he was somebody who, when it came to our working experience, we were very familiar with each other, and... Oh, I'm so glad I had that experience, because I was such a fan of his. And I'm glad that someone asked about him.

I'll just say that I don't think anyone has ever told me a story about James Garner that wasn't incredibly positive. 

Oh, that's good to hear. Well, I can't imagine anyone ever having any other kind of story. He was that kind of guy. He was exactly what you would hope to find out that he was: he didn't come across as a movie star, he just came across as a person, a human being. He was wonderful, and he was someone who cared as much about the crew and the hair and makeup people as he did any of the actors. They were his friends, and they adored him. And that's all you need to know about him to know that he was the real deal. He wasn't just talented. He was a person who cared about other people. He was extraordinary.

Okay, let's talk about Hill Street Blues, which provided you with the opportunity to play the same character over the course of a pretty lengthy run.

Well, yes, and thank you again, because you're picking out the ones that I love to talk about! [Laughs.] And with Hill Street Blues, there was nothing that was more important to my career or to me personally. Steven Bochco... Well, he changed television. Until that show, hourlong cop shows had the good guys, the bad guys, and by the end the good guys got the bad guys, and then the next week was a new episode where they did it all over again. This was about the people there who just happened to be on the police force. It wasn't necessarily about the crime committed or the bad guy. And that just changed the shape of everything in the hour-long format. I mean, we just talked about The Rockford Files, but there you go: every week was a different episode, brand new, nothing really to do with the previous week. With Hill Street Blues, each week was a continuation of the previous episode, and for all those years.

Like some of these other shows I've mentioned, though, it was also an incredibly popular show within the industry. Everybody watched it, everybody wanted to have a chance to read for it. Bochco's productions were always exceptional. I had actually done a couple of episodes of a show he'd done before that - Delvecchio - so he knew me a little bit from that. I came back a couple of times on that show, which is always a nice sign that they like your work, but I didn't really know him. 

[Below is the intro to Delvecchio, and while Wyner isn’t in it, owing to the fact that he was a recurring guest star rather than a full cast member, I include it because - in case you aren’t familiar with the series - a quick look at Judd Hirsch’s co-starsin the series will confirm to you that Wyner wasn’t the only actor Bochco re-utilized on Hill Street Blues.]

So on the day I auditioned for Hill Street Blues,.. This was at the end of the first season, so I'd seen it and, boy, did I want to be on that show! And there was a group of us waiting to go in, one at a time, but then everybody's coming out - and Bochco's not in there, it's just the casting director - and as they're coming out, they're going [Sighs.] "I just couldn't do what the director wanted me to do in there!" And I'm just sitting there thinking, "Ah, this is looking better and better!" [Laughs.] All these auditioners are seemingly falling by the wayside...and these are all good actors! So finally I go in there...and I have the same experience! I went, "I... I don't know what you mean!" And I walked out feeling the same way everyone else did: thinking, "Ah, I blew it!"

Well, when you're leaving, you can take the elevator or you can take the stairs. I took the stairs...and as I'm walking down the stairs, Bochco's walking up. And he goes, "Oh, hi!" He remembered me from Delvecchio. I said, "Oh, hi, Stephen!" He says, "What are you doing?" I said, "Oh, I'm auditioning for you for Hill Street." And he said, "Oh, great! Good luck!" And I walked on, and I thought, "Well, at least I got to say 'hi' to him,": But, of course, I got the job, and it was probably a month or more later when the casting director was there on the set and said, "You know how you got this job, right? Stephen walked in and said, 'I want George Wyner to do this part.'" And I thought, "If I'd taken the elevator, I never would've done Hill Street Blues!" But those things happen. And I still think about that...and I haven't taken an elevator since! [Laughs.] You never know who's gonna be coming up the stairs!

That was just a remarkable time in my life, to be associated with that show for quite a few years. I made some really good friends on the cast, and just to be working on a Bochco show and to be working with Steven... He was very, very special to just about everybody in this town.

I suspect this is going to be another one of those "dream come true" situations, but...you worked with Mel Brooks twice. I think most people immediately think of you from Spaceballs, but before that you worked with him on his remake of To Be or Not to Be.

Yeah! Well, right off the bat, Mel Brooks is the funniest man alive. I mean, he really is. He is a genius. And, yes, I feel like I'm repeating myself...

For Mel Brooks, I think it's worth repeating this sentiment.

[Laughs.] Well, it's true! Because it's Mel Brooks! There is no higher goal in terms of success than to get to work in a comedy for Mel Brooks. I mean, getting to do that.. That's just remarkable. I'd actually done a small part in a film that BrooksFilms, Mel's production company, had done, but I didn't think that much about that aspect of it. I mean, I enjoyed the film, but I only found out later that Mel had seen the film...and I found out when I got a call from my agent saying, "Mel Brooks wants to meet you." I said, "Knock it off." [Laughs.] I thought I was getting played, you know? But she said, "No, he wants to meet you." And I walked into his office, and he quoted one of my lines back to me, and I went, "Oh, my goodness..." So we talked, and he said, "I want you to do this." And that was it. I didn't even audition for him!

And that really opened up the floodgates for me in so many ways, obviously, being part of Mel's world. And when I say that, I don't mean "floodgates" career-wise. I just mean that being in that world, being with Mel and all of his friends that would come on the set...including his wife, of course. Anne Bancroft, what a remarkable woman.

And, of course, it led to Spaceballs! I was on the set of Hill Street one day, and one of his friends - a wonderful writer - came inand said, "You know, I think Mel's writing a part for you on Spaceballs." And I just went [Stunned.] "What?!" And he did want me to come over to his office and meet with Rick Moranis and do some of the back-and-forth stuff, and we had a great time with that, so that was that: I did Spaceballs. And, you know, of all the jobs in all these years in TV and film, that's the one that will live on. And I said this to Mel, because, you know, that's not necessarily what's in Mel's mind, and I understood this, because he's done some remarkable work over the years and even won an Oscar. But Spaceballs... It was a lot of fun, but it also showed his ability to go from generation to generation to generation, because Star Wars and things like that keep it alive. I mean, if I'd only done three jobs and Spaceballs was one of them, I'd still be in the same position: people want to talk about that movie...and now, fathers are introducing me to their sons! 

So working with Mel was every bit what you'd hope it would be, and the result of it was everything I could've imagined, because here we are almost 35 years later, and it's still something that people talk about and still enjoy quite a bit. I'm so grateful that it happened. And Mel has since talked about it that way, too. In some ways, it's... [Hesitates.] If it's not the best film he's ever done, it's the one with the longest lifespan. The legs on that movie just never stop. And I enjoy talking to people about it because it was so much fun. 

Anyway, Mel was great...and is great! I just have to say this: a few years ago, a friend of mine called and said, "Mel Brooks wants you to call him," so I called the studio and I get his office, and Mel picks up, and I said, "Hey, Mel, it's George!" And he goes, "I told you never to call me here!" [Laughs.] And I said, "Oh, I didn't hear that!" And he said, "You never heard 'never'?" That's Mel. There's nobody with his wit, but when you're in his world, you get to be the beneficiary of it. Just a remarkably humorous man, and - for good reason - I love that man to death. He's very special to me. 

Well, just to give you an idea of what kind of impact that movie's had, I posted on Facebook that I was going to be talking to you, and someone said, "I dunno, I’ve heard he’s surrounded assholes..."

[Bursts out laughing.] Oh, yeah, it's one of those certain moments in that film - "I'm surrounded by assholes!" - that, whenever I'm an autograph show or whatever - that people want to talk about. Or if I ask them how they want me to sign something, they'll say, "Sign it, 'I'm surrounded by assholes!'" So, yeah, definitely a popular moment in the film! [Hesitates.] You know, you've been asking me about all of this stuff, and all I've got are good answers. Ask me about some show I didn't like! [Laughs.]

Oh, I'm sure I'll find one. 

I hope so. I'm coming off as such a nice guy. I'm actually kind of a mean son of a bitch!

Now that's acting! 

[Laughs.] Well, thank you.

Okay, so I noticed during the course of preparing for this interview that in one of your two episodes of The Bob Newhart Show, you're wearing a t-shirt for a camp...and that t-shirt also shows up in an episode of WKRP in Cincinnati, a show you also guest-starred on, but it's being worn by Howard Hesseman, who guest-starred in that same Bob Newhart episode. 

[Laughs.] You know, I don't know why wore that shirt on WKRP. I didn't notice that! But I still see Howard sometimes. He's a great, great guy. Yeah, Bob Newhart's another one of those extraordinary people who, if you get a chance to work with them, you never, ever forget. And in addition to those episodes, I also went on to do an episode of his next show (Newhart), albeit as a different character. But Bob's a brilliantly funny man.

A lot of times when you're doing a show in front of a live audience like that, the star would go out beforehand and say hello to the audience. But Bob would go out and do maybe five minutes of stand-up! I'm, like, "Can I just buy a ticket to stand up there and watch him before the show?" [Laughs.] He's such a funny, talented man, and working with him was... [Pauses.] Again, you know, I sound like a fan, but that's because I am! And I will never stop being a fan! And I've run into Bob occasionally over the years, and he's always remembered our working together...and I get thrilled all over again!

Do you remember anything in particular about your WKRP two-parter?

Yeah, that it wasn't going to be a two-parter! [Laughs.] It was going to be a one-parter, but they decided to expand it a little bit there. I remember how much I enjoyed that cast. It was a really terrific cast, and I was welcomed into the family, which always makes you feel good. So I glad they extended it into a second episode, because we were having so much fun with it!

All right, I don't want to keep you forever, so how about we do one more? And then maybe one day we can do a sequel.

I'm available ![Laughs.] 

Okay, good to know! For now, though, let's wrap with She's the Sheriff.

Oh! Yeah, well, um... Listen, the first thing I want to say is that Suzanne Somers, she and I became good friends. Going into that, Suzanne had had a falling out with Three's Company, the show that made her a big star, which was really unfortunate, because it wasn't really her doing. But that's another story. Anyway, she was ostracized there for a little bit, and that was really a shame, but this was her coming-back show, as it were. And I didn't know what to expect. But you never know what to expect. You just go in there and start work and be friendly. And she was terrific. She was extremely open and funny and got along with everybody on the crew and everybody in the cast. And that's not always the case. I don't want to come across like a complete Pollyanna, like everybody's wonderful. That's not always the case. But it was with Suzanne. 

I remember the first time we had a table read, as you do for half-hour shows...and hour shows, too, but I generally think of it mostly in terms of half-hours. But the writers are there, and they want to see what works and what they might need to work on. So we did the table read, and then they said, "Look, we're not gonna work today, because we have to do this, this, and this, so we'll just start up tomorrow." And I turned to Suzanne and said, "Suzanne, I'm so sorry!" She said, "Why?" I said, "Because you look wonderful, and now you have to go home and change. You did all that just for the table read!" 

She was someone who really tried to make everybody feel good. She really did. She's a really wonderful person, and you don't say that about everybody, even though I am. [Laughs.] But she is wonderful! And we knew that what we were doing was not, uh... [Hesitates.] Yeah, it was not anybody's favorite show. But that doesn't mean the experience isn't terrific. Sometimes it's a terrific show and the experience isn't so good. But this was not that. This was a really good experience, and I still have friends who I made on that show. 

Before we go, I just wanted to circle back very quickly to earlier, when you mentioned that you’d worked on a project that was produced by Mel Brooks’ production company. That project was My Favorite Year.

Of course! Yes, that's right, absolutely, so I'm glad you did circle back! Yeah, a wonderful film, and the director, Richard Benjamin, was one of my all-time favorite heroes as an actor, so to get to work with him... Yeah, I thought that was a really good film...and that's a really good example of the industry: you never know what's going to happen, and you can't begin to know, "Well, if I do this, then this will happen, and that will lead to this..." You just have to let it happen in its own way. And whatever you may want to have happen... Well, maybe it will, but there's a pretty good chance it won't. And this is one that did lead to other opportunities, obviously...and I will say that I thanked my agent for it.

I was going to do the job anyway, I'm sure, but I remember my agent calling and saying, "This role... It's a lawyer, it's one scene, and it's a short scene..." And I'd done a lot of lawyer work at that point, so I was, like, "I don't know... Another lawyer job?" And he said, "It's a BrooksFilm production. That means Mel Brooks is gonna see it." I said, "Okay, what time?" [Laughs.] If she hadn't said that... Well, it's not like I went around saying "no" to auditions all time. Hardly at all! But I still remember to this day how I thanked her for reminding me of that!