Interview: Ronee Blakley (Pt. 3)
WARNING: If you haven’t yet read Pt. 2 of this piece, then you’re gonna want to do that…and if you haven’t yet read Pt. 1 of this piece, then you’re definitely going to want to do that.
Mind you, I’m not saying you absolutely, positively have to read either of them before you read this part. I’m just saying that you’ll only ruin the experience for yourself if you don’t.
P.S. If you like what you’re reading here, don’t be afraid to upgrade to a paid subscription!
Looking back, I don't know how I managed to miss out on asking you about this the last time we talked, but I won't let the opportunity slip by again: how was the experience of working with Leonard Cohen on Death of a Ladies Man?
Well, that was mostly working with Phil [Spector], because Leonard wasn't really there!
I did not know that.
Yeah! Leonard was a friend of mine, or an acquaintance of mine. He had spent the night at my house once and slept on the sofa, and Kinky Friedman called it "the Leonard Cohen Sofa" ever after.
As well he should have!
[Laughs.] And Leonard took me to meet his guru, Roshi, and Roshi gave me a silk scarf. I mean, I just don't know how to explain it, Will. Everybody seems to know everybody! We all swirled around and were just hanging out with each other. But Phil... I can't remember right now how I met Phil. I just can't remember right this sec. But Phil asked me to sing on Leonard's record. So I was having lunch with Bob Dylan and Allen Ginsberg at Cantor's, and I was on my way to the session with Phil for Leonard, and then Bob and Allen decided to come with me and tag along.
So we went to the studio, and...there were no musicians. No other singers. Nobody. Just me and Phil and...I can't remember if there was even an engineer right this second. But we had a very good time, and I did it with earphones, and I sang to a track. I sang with Leonard to a track that was pre-recorded...and I've read since then that Leonard said that he thought those were just throwaway demo tracks! That he was going to re-record them with the finals later.
But they were kept as the master tracks, and Phil mixed me up real high. If you listen to those, you'll hear that I'm mixed as a duet, really equal with Leonard's voice. Not a background singing job. Have you heard those tracks?
I have, yeah.
So you know what I'm referring to?
I do.
Okay, thank you for understanding. Because there's a difference: for background singing, you mix it lower or differently into the background, whereas for a duet you mix it equal or almost equal. More even, anyway. So I knew Phil liked it when I heard it, because he'd mixed me up so high. But everybody, I suppose, was drinking a little. I don't know. Whatever. [Laughs.]
I mean, it's a pretty fair bet.
You know, I'm sure we were. Anyway, so then Phil, I think, got Bob and Allen to come in and sing on something. One of the other tracks.
Yes, I read about that.
I liked Phil. I recognized him as an eccentric. An incredible eccentric. But I liked him. And I felt for him. You know, because he was so eccentric, I knew that was difficult for him. And I was friends with Phil. I didn't date him as a romantic person, but I would go for dinner with him and be his friend. Once he took me to meet the secretary of his first company in Philadelphia. He had an office on La Cienega. And his house... Yes, there was something odd about it. I do understand all the stories. But it didn't happen to me, and I wouldn't let it happen to me.
But Phil did have that thing, because when he would pick you up - because I think he picked everybody up in a limousine, and he had two adorable, handsome 6'4" twin bodyguards, and they really, genuinely loved and adored Phil - there was that feeling of controlling about Phil. And if you're in his car, then you can't just go to your car and leave. His car has to drive you home. I haven't had all that much experience with that, but it shouldn't be a problem. You should just say when you're ready to go, and then you go. I mean, can you imagine Leonard Cohen being kept a prisoner? I mean, a great man, a great poet...
Not so much. I mean, I can't really imagine anyone being kept a prisoner, but certainly not him.
Certainly not him! Can you imagine Leonard saying, "Phil, I need to go home," and Phil saying, "No, you're staying over"? [Laughs.] But I think that's what happened!
That is what I've read. I've heard that Spector locked him in, and Leonard said, "Well, if we're locked in, then we might as well write some songs," or something to that effect.
Yeah, but when I said I wanted to go, I went. In other words, nothing like that ever happened to me. I would never let that happen to me. And it's hard to imagine it happening with Leonard! But...I just don't know. I can't tell you anything about it, because I wasn't there. So, yes, I liked Phil, but I did sense that he had some problems.
Which would seem to be borne out by other evidence as well.
I think so. Other people thought so, too, of course. I don't know what those problems were. I don't pretend to know. I know Phil had an automobile accident. I know he had a bad crash. And, you know, these things can take their toll on your brain, accidents and crashes and head injuries. And Phil was an incredible... I don't know if you want to say "genius," but he was an incredibly gifted creative force.
Oh, I don't disagree with that at all.
He was a kingmaker, in a way. And that's probably why Leonard stayed.
That would make sense.
But I didn't go for that. Phil and I were supposed to do a television show. Phil asked me to be the host of the show with him, and I agreed to do that, but...something just didn't feel right to me. I couldn't put my finger on it. Even my manager wanted to know what it was, and I just... I couldn't say. And I didn't want to say. I didn't know what it was. But I didn't do the show. And Phil felt betrayed by me, that I did not do that show. He was hurt. I knew he would be, but... I couldn't explain why I said "no," I just said "no."
Well, I won't say it was for the best, because you just never know about these things, but...
No, but... I mean, who says "no" to Phil Spector? There are pictures of us at the press conference announcing the show. So it's official! I have pictures! [Laughs.]
You really had a habit of saying "no" to people you weren't supposed to say "no" to. First Dylan, now Phil Spector.
I said "no" to Clint Eastwood, too! That was a big mistake.
I feel like maybe I know this story, but you should probably tell it, just to be on the safe side.
Well, you shouldn't say "no." I don't believe one should say "no." I had one agent who told me, "You should always say, 'Yes.' Say 'yes' to everything." And that was probably good advice, because I've made some very bad mistakes by saying, 'No.'" And Clint Eastwood... Well, it's a bit of a long story, but I met him Nudie's Rodeo Tailors store.
I was buying some chaps, and Nudie [Cohn] introduced me to Clint, who was doing a movie called Every Which Way But Loose. It was starring his girlfriend at the time, Sondra Locke, and they were shooting at the Palomino. Anyway, Clint met me, and he wanted me for a role, and I got the script, but...I couldn't see any lines in there for myself. And I thought, "Well, I don't know if I should be doing this if she doesn't have many lines!" I didn't know if I should or not.
And then I had a dream - a bad dream - where I was at a big party and I was naked, and my mother says, "Everybody saw you!" I'm on a plane with my husband, Wim Wenders, the next day, and I tell him about this dream, and he said to me, "Well, if you did that movie, that would be like everyone seeing you naked." Anyway, one thing led to another, my husband didn't want me to do it, and I didn't do it. And I should have. There are many things like that.
Well, so it goes.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying: and there it went! [Laughs.]
[Looking at the cast list for Every Which Way But Loose, my best guess is that Ronee’s role would’ve been Echo, girlfriend to Geoffrey Lewis’s character, who ended up being played by Beverly D’Angelo.]
All right, let's circle back to your new album again before we wrap up.
Oh, good, because I wanted to mention something: Colin Cameron - who played bass on some of the tracks on the album, the ones at Jackson Browne's studio, like "Redux Little Joe" - he died. So two of the players on this album are R.I.P., and I want to honor both of them, so I wanted to honor Colin, who I also played with for 40 years or whatever. He also played with Hoyt. He played with everybody! He played with every rock band and...just everybody over the years, when he was a top session man. He was very generous and giving of his talents to me over many years. There are just these circles where we all intertwine. When you and I talk, I really realize how profound it is, and how broad, and how deep and wide, like the old folk song.
I have found over time that my interviews tend to spur memories. I do this deep digging into people's back catalogs just because it entertains me to do so, and I ask about these things that nobody else ever seems to ask about, and suddenly people begin to realize just how much stuff they've done and how many people they've worked with.
And how everybody knows each other and where all the connections are.
Exactly.
And the thing is, we don't go this deep because we think, "Who cares? Who's interested?" We may care about our lives, but who else is really interested in all of these details? But you seem to be. [Laughs.]
I am, and I have a readership that is.
Your readers are interested in that?
Absolutely they are. My niche might be a small one, but it's found a collective of devoted fans and readers who love the fact that I ask about the most unlikely things, because those are the things that people don't usually get a chance to tell stories about...and there's a lot of gold to be mined from those stories!
Yes, and it's not even as though they're secret. They're just unknown! They're not part of the rotogravure.
And I know that word, thanks to Ringo Starr using it in the title of an album.
You know, Ringo wanted to go on the Rolling Thunder Revue.
Did he, really?
Yeah! He asked me to ask Bob if he could go. [Laughs.] We were having lunch at Imperial Gardens at the time. One of our favorite restaurants. We'd have lunch there all the time...and when I say "we," I mean any of the above-mentioned names!
Often it would be Helena [Kallianiotes] and I and Carole Eastman, who wrote Five Easy Pieces. And I have a painting I did of her hanging on my wall in my kitchen right now. I'm looking at it right now...and it was painted at Imperial Gardens! So you see, we could keep tying in stuff. We'd be here all year!
So to close, in regards to Atom Bomb Baby, if you had to pick a gateway-drug song for people to investigate the album, what would you recommend that they listen to first? And then they can go back to the beginning and listen to the whole thing in order, of course...
Well, let's put it this way...
If it's rock 'n' roll, I think they'd be drawn in by "Hurricane."
If it were folk, I think it would be me and the guitar on "Into the Wind and Beyond."
If it were country, I think it would be "Little Joe Redux."
If it were art song-y, I think it would be "A Thing of Beauty."
If they wanted to hear Rusty Anderson solo, they'd want to listen to "What Was the Reason."
And if they wanted to hear poetry, they'd listen to "Atom Bomb Baby - Fear by Request."
So what you're saying is, there's potentially a little something there for everybody.
I really do think that...and I hope they'll like it!
And not to sound like a total public service announcement, but if you like what you’ve heard throughout the course of this three-part interview, here’s Ronee’s full discography, which you can find with relative ease thanks to the links I’ve provided:
Of One Blood
Live at the Bitter End
Djerassi Collection
Lastly, if this lengthy interview has been your first exposure to Ronee Blakley, then I’ll let this Billboard ad for her sophomore LP do the talking…